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Post by Gaston on Apr 1, 2017 3:25:43 GMT
Well, this is what dojo is for. Let's take our Rask/Maelok pairing and see what it does. You mentioned Ret dual Sentinel, so that makes me think Kaelyssa. Kaelyssa pairs up with eVryos; I know this because I looked at one list pairing on DGI . So looking at Vyros, it seems pretty clear that Rask is the drop there. He protects against Helios, can kill a colossal with a single heavy, has a threat extender, and with Fury the Posse can actually threaten the Griffons, without they tend to struggle. Given that we agree that Maelok goes better into infantry, this leads to some list chicken. We don't like list chicken. We want our opponent to worry while we already have the answer. So the question becomes, how does Rask play into Kaelyssa, x2 Hyrda, Elara, Discordia, x2 Sentinels? On deployment, we can anticipate it will be fairly symmetrical, with the possibility of Disco as a floater. Kaelyssa is rather aggravating with Dispel knocking off Fury, and given that we only have 2 warbeasts we can expect her to ping up the Wrastlers with Energy Siphon to force Rask to cut himself early to make assassination more viable in the late game. So turn 1 both sides run up. Kaelyssa should keep the Sentinels back 12" from the Posse. Next turn she will advance to 7.1" and feat, Rask needs to counterfeat. He cannot feat first. After both feats, the game can actually begin. Following the feat turn, both Sentinels will minifeat and be at Arm 20. This still should not be a big deal for the Posse to crack, but you really want to be able to jam them up hard to deny them from getting charge dice. Pow 12 on Arm 18 averages about 4-5 damage without the charge, with the charge it equals dead Gator. No one likes dead Gator, make them take two swings. The Hydras cap out at Pow 17 with Kaelyssa, Disco at 18. If they charge a Wrastler, that works out to 23 damage (27 for Disco), or if they walk in it is 25 damage, 30 for Disco. So...a Wrastler --could-- take it, but you don't really want to risk it. Conversely, a Wrastler can easily wreck a Ret heavy. Ultimately, attrition should decide the game in Rask's favor. If you want, you can try to use Totem Hunter to hunt the Arcanists, I do think that will end up a game of cat and mouse with Disco that TH will lose. Additionally, you can use scenario to try to pressure Kaelyssa, she plays a very stand off game and her army has significantly less staying power than yours. Now none of this will actually matter once the dice hit the table. It never does, but what it does do is provide a framework for thinking about how to approach the matchup in a way that favors you the most. What threats do you have to take care of? What are the priorities? What will your opponent do and how will you take advantage of that?
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Post by Gaston on Apr 1, 2017 3:26:55 GMT
I have little experience with Calaban at the moment, but have some Jaga reports that I will get posted eventually. I currently prefer her out of theme at the moment.
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Post by Gaston on Apr 3, 2017 13:32:26 GMT
As usual, I am lazy and pictures will follow at some point. As the meta turns, I wanted to explore a little bit into Jaga Jaga as I feel that she has the tools to make quite an impact. I was planning on sitting on this a bit until I had more Jaga reports, but with the upcoming Sacral CID this batrep is going to age out before I get that chance. Jaga Jaga -Blackhide Wrastler -Ironback Spitter -Ironback Spitter Sacral Vault Dahlia -Skarath Bog Trog Mist Speaker Cylena Raefyll and Nyss Hunters (max) Spitters are proxied by Road Hogs, because packing models is hard. I had built my Jaga list with Haley3 and pre-nerf HR in mind. I liked the idea of being able to Spellpierce through Haley and have mass RFP versus HR. What I had not built for was Skorne with Gargantuans and Tibbers and a general inability to shoot at anything in the list. Which is why I got to play Pokey with his revamped Skorne instead. He was running Xerxis2, Hydra, Tiberion, Shaman, Legends, Keltarii, and support. So...time to grow as a gamer. Turn 1: I put up Escort, Grave Wind, Haunting Melody, Run. He does Skorne things and runs up too. Turn 2: I shuffle around a little bit, being super aware of the Hydra’s sprays. The Nyss do manage to do a 2-man CRA to clip one of the Keltarii. Because of Reach and Field Marshal and Sandstorm, the piece trade is going to be up to me. I decide to sacrifice the Vault by toeing the zone with it, just inside the Hydra’s threat range. The Keltarii cannot touch it, so he will have to commit. On the other flank, I have a choice between the Mist Speaker or a Spitter. If I put in the Mist Speaker, I fear he is just going to kill it off with a Legend rather than commit Tibbers, so a Spitter it is. My opponent does exactly what I foresaw, comes in, and the Hydra blows up the Vault and Tibbers gets him some turtle soup. He only goes up 1-0 on CP because a Nyss evaded a spray. Turn 3: Herein lies my compounding of my previous turn’s mistake: I don’t really have the fury to do everything I need to in a way to guarantee things die, particularly because I need to go first with Jaga in order to feat. Jaga upkeeps Grave Wind and Battle Host, feats, puts Fury on the Turtle and Ghost Walk on Skarath. The Nyss go in and kill a Keltarii, triggering Dark Shroud on the Hyrda, then they cut it up some. The Turtle charges in and drops it to super low health, the snake gets the kill. Dahlia has to run to contest the zone, the Wrastler backs up out of Tibbers range. My opponent feats to kill off the Nyss, and damage the snake and Turtle. Grave Wind is boss on the snake. Tiberion uses his animus Bulldoze to push Dahlia out, and he dominates for 3-0. We fool around a bit, but the long and short is that I cannot keep Dahlia in the zone when he has access to 3 Bulldozes between Tibbers, Xerxis, and the Shaman, so I lose on scenario. Lessons Learned: I think if I had played smarter then I could have turned this one around and won it. My sacrifice plan went as intended, what I lacked was follow up ability. I think what was needed was to upkeep Battle Host, drop Grave Wind, and use the 6 fury to cast Rage on the Turtle, Ghost Walk and Rage on the Wrastler. Feat goes as normal, trigger Dark Shroud and send the Turtle into the Hydra. Dahlia can Mist Walker the Snake since she doesn’t need to run. Wrastler can then go into Tiberion. If he goes in at Pow 20, that is 33 damage. If he uses Man Eater to charge a Legend instead, he could use a Claw on the charge, trigger feat and be Pow 22 on Tibbers, which is then 37 damage; buuuuuuuuuuut he needs an 8 to hit the Legend. Both plans are dicey, but what matters is that I can look back at the game and say that there was a plan that I could have executed at the time. Means that it is the player, not the list; which is a good thing because I am generally a fan of this list.
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Post by gdead909 on Apr 4, 2017 0:01:12 GMT
Glad to see JJ is getting some love. I can never make her work right but I always want to. Such a cool model and cool spells
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Post by Gaston on Apr 4, 2017 0:12:51 GMT
I had a hard time seeing it until I put her on the table. She is fun.
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Post by Gaston on Apr 5, 2017 13:10:27 GMT
So all this gator talk is depressing to me, because it is TIME TO PIG OUT!!! I grabbed my trusty Arkadius list off the shelf and made my way down to the LGS to knock off the rust. Dr. Arkadius -Road Hog -Road Hog -War Hog -War Hog -Battle Boar -Battle Boar -Targ Dahlia -Skarath Bone Grinders (min) Chef Feralgiest Bellows Crew I sorta played down the Bellows Crew because I sorta left them at home...who needs them anyway. My evening date brought his trolls out: Ragnar -Runebearer -Mauler -Mulg -Bouncer -Bouncer Fell Caller Hero Horgle -Pyre Feralgeist Krielstone (max) Fire Eaters Fire Eaters Bellows Crew Other Stuff A quick note on the terrain: the bits that look like water are actually trenches. I went first, hurt the Road Hogs, ran up quick. Forced Evo on Skarath, Aggravator on Arkadius. Dahlia puts up Haunting Melody. He runs his army up, feats, believing that I have the threat range to alpha out his heavies (I was certainly eyeing it). He also hit his Fire Eaters from me. So, I just camped out of threat range and waited the turn out, moving Arkadius so that he was within 6” and reposition of the right flag. His turn he jams me up with Bouncers and runs his beasts into position and sets the Fire Eaters on fire. My turn I primal both War Hogs and a Road Hog and feat, put Crippling Grasp onto Mulg. One Road Hog goes into the right Bouncer and misses. The War Hog and Road Hog go into the left Bouncer and take a chunk of it, then another War Hog goes forward towards Mulg. The left Road Hog kills off the left Bouncer, the left War Hog goes into the Mauler with Aggression Dial and rolls absolutely pants for damage, leaving the Mauler on like half health. Right War Hog walks into Mulg, also rolls pants for hitting and damage and takes all his swings to kill Mulg off. Right Road Hog does next to nothing to the Bouncer. Dahlia runs forward to use her aura, the Snake charges and kills the Bouncer off with Ancillary Assistance from Targ. So...less than amazing, I was hoping to get all his beasts this turn and basically break the back of his list. With a Mauler still alive...sigh. Poor War Hogs. Fire Eaters come in and blow away Dahlia with ludicrous ease. The Mauler bangs up one War Hog and chain attack throws him, kills the other. War Hog frenzies on the objective, Road Hog on the strategically placed Feralgiest. Arkadius scoots and puts Primal and FE on the Road Hog, repos to the flag. Road Hog goes in and kills the Mauler, and with Targ kills the Objective. One Battle Boar gets Primal and Berserk and Overtake and kills off two Fire Eaters. The other Battle Boar scoots back toward Arkadius in anticipation of Contestagiest removal. 3-0 He puts a buffed Horgle into the Road Hog, but FE actually saves me. He floods the zone with the Kriel Stone. The Fell Caller rips into the Battle Boar, the Fire Eaters continue to take chunks out of my heavies. Primal’d Road Hog frenzies on Horgle and kills him. Battle Boar takes a free strike from the Fell Caller and frenzies into a Fire Eater, killing him. Battle Boar goes Berserk and Overtake into the Krieldstone unit, but he keeps sacking the back models to keep the Stone alive. Arkadius hits the Krielstone with Crippling Grasp and handles the Feralgiest. The Road Hog and Battle Boar are out of command and cannot be healed. The mind is out on the Road Hog, so he advances and sprays 3 Stone members, boosting, killing 2. War Hog finishes the unit. 4-0 At this point we grind it out some, and I am able to finish the game on Scenario. Lessons Learned: Ugh, that was an ugly game. I was a bit frustrated with myself because I felt like I played incredibly sloppy just in general, between getting cards mixed up, positioning, etc. After 6 months of Dr. Abstinence I guess I needed to knock out the cobwebs and game night after 12 hrs of work probably wasn’t the greatest approach. Game-wise, strategy-wise, I was relatively satisfied. The dice did not like me on feat turn, but I think I arranged matters where he was forced into an awkward feat which worked well to my benefit. After playing Rask and bemoaning the lack of threat projection in that list, it was hugely refreshing to plop down War Hogs with 17” threat ranges. Despite my best efforts, Arkadius is still a boss.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Apr 9, 2017 18:48:25 GMT
Have you had any thoughts on the Barnabas builds in and out of theme?
I know on the podcast you mentioned that overall you find him boring, but the more I look at his card and the meta that's developing (swinging back towards a mixed warjack and infantry force), the more I see a need for a caster who can a) fix MAT, and b) support the army, and not just in a '"Crack ALL the armour" ala Rask.
I also really find myself looking at his feat and thinking back to the Kreoss pop 'n' drop, which when I played Protectorate, I never really experienced, as the meta back then always seemed to have an answer to knock down. However, right now, there is high def infantry and beasts around (Circle, Circle, Circle...) and not a lot of ways for them to prevent knockdown.
Anyway, looking forward to the next 'cast!
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Post by Gaston on Apr 10, 2017 14:08:48 GMT
I'd venture there are two ways to go about building him, and neither really scream THEME! to me, though you certainly can go that route.
The first would be analogous to pKreoss Pop n' Drop. Bring some Turtles, Sacral Vault, Croaks, Brigands, probably a Wrastler just cause, Razorback Crews, etc. There are tons of lists on Discount Games from various tournaments.
The second would be analogous to iKreoss, where you bring something built more to take advantage of Warpath extending threat ranges and then keeping the feat as a bit of a back up. That would lend more towards a beast heavy list, with maybe just a single unit, and a couple snipers to make Warpath easier to trigger, or even Totem Hunter. Gators issue is that they don't have something like a Reckoner where it is a great gun and melee, but the turtle is probably passable.
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Post by macdaddy on Apr 11, 2017 12:20:13 GMT
I've seen you use Sturm and Drang before. I have a buddy who's getting into minions and he loves Sturm and Drang. Do you have any advice for him in buying models (he already has a sizeable gator force) We were thinking using in theme to get retaliatory strike and then making a big beast brick.
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Post by Gaston on Apr 11, 2017 13:24:49 GMT
I've seen you use Sturm and Drang before. I have a buddy who's getting into minions and he loves Sturm and Drang. Do you have any advice for him in buying models (he already has a sizeable gator force) We were thinking using in theme to get retaliatory strike and then making a big beast brick. Traditionally I've run Sturm Super Friends; Battle Boar, x2 War Hogs, Rorsh, Dahlia, and sometimes Wrong Eye, sometimes Meat Thresher for Polarity Field target. The general idea is that Deflection and Shield Guard do a good job keeping the jrs alive, then TK on the Snake or Brine makes them a very long, credible threat (13" on snake, 16" on Brine, without TK'ing enemy models even). I currently have a pin in them until the Thresher enters CID, I have some theme/Slaughterhouser dojo, but I don't know if it is any good. Azahul was running this in theme: Sturm and Drang -War Hog -Splatter Boar -Battle Boar Max Brigands with Warlord Max Brigands with Warlord (free Warlord) Min Bone Grinders Razorback Crew (free) Razorback Crew (free) Rorsh and Brine Meat Thresher
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Post by Azahul on Apr 11, 2017 22:38:07 GMT
Azahul was running this in theme: Sturm and Drang -War Hog -Splatter Boar -Battle Boar Max Brigands with Warlord Max Brigands with Warlord (free Warlord) Min Bone Grinders Razorback Crew (free) Razorback Crew (free) Rorsh and Brine Meat Thresher Not exactly. The actual list was: Sturm and Drang -War Hog -Splatter Boar -Battle Boar -Gun Boar Max Brigands -Warlord Min Bone Grinders Razorback Crew (free) Razorback Crew (free) Rorsh and Brine Hutchuck Meat Thresher It was awful. No symmetry at all. Not even double Brigands to make me feel better. My inner spammer hated myself every time I put it on the table.
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Post by Cryptix on Apr 11, 2017 23:08:56 GMT
Azahul was running this in theme: Sturm and Drang -War Hog -Splatter Boar -Battle Boar Max Brigands with Warlord Max Brigands with Warlord (free Warlord) Min Bone Grinders Razorback Crew (free) Razorback Crew (free) Rorsh and Brine Meat Thresher Not exactly. The actual list was: Sturm and Drang -War Hog -Splatter Boar -Battle Boar -Gun Boar Max Brigands -Warlord Min Bone Grinders Razorback Crew (free) Razorback Crew (free) Rorsh and Brine Hutchuck Meat Thresher It was awful. No symmetry at all. Not even double Brigands to make me feel better. My inner spammer hated myself every time I put it on the table.
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Post by Gaston on Apr 12, 2017 1:51:13 GMT
My eyes burned from the asymmetry, so I assumed that was the right list.
The Beautiful List Gods are displeased...
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Post by Azahul on Apr 12, 2017 2:12:04 GMT
It's a cruel irony that my lists for the two-headed pig Warlock end up without duplication.
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Post by Gaston on Apr 12, 2017 14:41:27 GMT
Final practice game with Arkadius before the team tournament. Same list as above, this time versus Kraye in Heavy Metal theme. I’ve heard a fair amount of griping about this theme, but haven’t really bothered to look into it or lose any sleep over it, so this should be interesting. Captain Jeramiah Kraye -Defender -Defender -Centurion -Charger -Charger -Squire Arlan Strangeways Mechanik Squad Alison Jakes -Hunter Journeyman -Hunter So lots of guns and lots of reposition; things that I do not enjoy playing Arkadius into. What I do enjoy is winning the roll and going first, which is exactly what happens. Turn 1, everything runs on up, Arkadius puts up Hyper Aggressive, because guns, and Forced Evolution on the Snake, because force of habit. Dahlia puts Mist Walker on the snake to give him pathfinder so that he can chillax in the woods and prowl about. Turn 1 for my opponent, he moves up, Centurion puts up Polarity Field and tramples, then repositions. That is stupid good. Stupid, stupid good. And then Jr. pops Arcane Shield on him. Oh my. Two Hunters and a Defender reduce my poor lead Road Hog down to 3 health. Super lame. So...I think I positioned myself pretty well on Scenario, but...I can’t take this amount of shooting. My list isn’t built for it, and he’ll wear me down too quickly. So it is time to assassinate Kraye, who is 15/15 and camping 1 focus. Additionally, I cannot feat charge the Centurion, but perhaps there is another way...I run the Feralgiest on up. A Battle Boar puts Primal on a War Hog. Arkadius goes, pulls a fury from the Battle Boar, puts Forced Evo and Primal on the lead Road Hog, feats the Road Hog into the Feralgiest, the War Hog into the Feralgiest and the War Hog into the Road Hog (out of range). Then he repositions forward to extend his control area. The War Hog forces for Strength, boosts a KD on the Centurion, and then proceeds to hot dice it within an inch of life. With the Centurion knocked down, the Road Hog forces for +2 Speed, walks around the objective, and kills Kraye. Lessons Learned: Once I solved the Rubics Cube, it became a textbook feat kill that Azahul would have been proud of. That being said, there are always ways to learn and improve, and this instance was no exception. -Put the Feralgiest out too far on a flank. I needed to keep him more central to use as a beacon, but still within a 12” run of the flag to force scenario pressure. I am also toying with swapping him out with the Chef for a Gremlin Swarm. -If the snake is gonna stealth and a Road Hog will be getting shot at, put FE on the hog. This did occur to me, but Arkadius had already moved and the objective cloud was blocking LoS, so my bad. I don’t think it would have actually changed my opponent’s hit rolls, but still meaningful. -Leave room between beasts for Arkadius to scoot up, he needs to feat first to help order of activation. -The new terrain rules are very frustrating at times. No longer being able to toe in removed any benefits at all that the hill could have provided versus a gunline. We were using 5 pieces that were centrally positioned, and not a damn one had any meaningful impact whatsoever on his gunline. Bring back toeing in!!!
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