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Post by MessOfMinions on Mar 23, 2017 11:44:35 GMT
Yeah, I'm not convinced that either is a good fit for the theme force either, I have yet to try out posse spam with maelok, but something tells me it's just not as good as mk2. Calaban really needs fast models in my opinion, so I usually build him with rorsch and Nyss so I feel the theme is kind of a dud.
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Post by Gaston on Mar 23, 2017 12:43:47 GMT
Yeah, I'm not convinced that either is a good fit for the theme force either, I have yet to try out posse spam with maelok, but something tells me it's just not as good as mk2. Calaban really needs fast models in my opinion, so I usually build him with rorsch and Nyss so I feel the theme is kind of a dud. I have more hope on Calaban, but yeah, I'm pretty rapidly getting there with Maelok. I am going to try to run a triple Posse this weekend into Grymkin, just to see. It'll be super aggravating if we get Mk2 Posse back just in time to learn we out grew them. At least Rask is still good.
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Post by gdead909 on Mar 26, 2017 22:52:38 GMT
I have a convention this upcoming weekend and this one of the lists I plan on running.
War Room Army
Minions - Rasky Business II
Theme: The Blindwater Congregation 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Bunker - Steamroller Objective
Rask - WB: +27 - Blackhide Wrastler - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Blind Walker - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Bull Snapper - PC: 0 - Bull Snapper - PC: 0
Bog Trog Mist Speaker - PC: 0
Gatorman Bokor & Bog Trog Swamp Shamblers - Bokor & 9 Grunts: 11 Gatorman Posse (Blindwater) - Leader & 4 Grunts: 17 Gatorman Posse (Blindwater) - Leader & 4 Grunts: 17 Gatorman Posse (Blindwater) - Leader & 4 Grunts: 17 Croak Raiders - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2
THEME: The Blindwater Congregation ---
GENERATED : 03/26/2017 18:50:43 BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16
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Post by gdead909 on Mar 26, 2017 23:01:09 GMT
Paired with this
War Room Army
Minions - Popsikill
Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army
Bunker - Steamroller Objective
Bloody Barnabas - WB: +28 - Targ - PC: 4 - Blackhide Wrastler - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Ironback Spitter - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Ironback Spitter - PC: 15
Sacral Vault - PC: 18
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 5 Bog Trog Mist Speaker - PC: 4 Efaarit Scouts - PC: 6 Swamp Gobber Chef - PC: 1
Farrow Brigands - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Farrow Brigand Warlord - PC: 4
---
GENERATED : 03/26/2017 19:00:09 BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16
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Post by Gaston on Mar 27, 2017 12:25:20 GMT
gdead909: Why a Walker with Rask? Good luck and kick some ass!
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Post by MessOfMinions on Mar 27, 2017 12:32:53 GMT
I've considered it before, In order to pass out fury and boundless more effectively, but I'm not gonna lie, unless you desperately need to squeeze in 4 points, the Walker doesn't seem worth it.
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Post by Gaston on Mar 27, 2017 12:44:04 GMT
So managed to briefly sneak out this weekend and get a game in. It was versus Grymkin, so we did a lot of rewinding, and rerolling, and actually being good playtesters (shudder), so this will be more of an "impressions report" than a "battle report".
He dropped Heretic in Bump theme, Skin and Bones, Cage Rager, Death Knell, x2 Piggies, x2 Dreadrots, ambushing Murder Crows, Longfellow and a couple other solos, etc. He also brought between 1 and 9 Arcana who's names I haven't bothered to learn. Ruin, Pheonix Down, and Prey. Something like that. This is why I don't CID.
Given the new theme and old Posse, Maelok tank was in order. It also coincided nicely with Dave E. doing so well at Adepticon, so I purloined a few ideas off of him. I still can't stand min Posse though, so I adjusted my list slightly.
Maelok the Dreadbound -Wrastler -Wrastler Chef Witch Doc (free) Witch Doc (free) Totem Hunter (free) GMP (max) GMP (max) GMP (max) GMP (max) Bellows Crew
Couple things came out of the game, first one being that I may need to eat some crow and admit that I was wrong. I'd pretty much pegged Maelok into a gunline hole based on previous experiences and was trying to force him into that way in the theme force as well. I haven't gotten to do the comparative testing that I'd like to, i.e. gunline in theme vs. gunline out of theme vs. Posse spam; but this build feels really, really, really strong. Like...really strong. I think it puts something like 200+ wounds on the table, and in melee at least it starts at Arm 18 and only goes up from there.
That being said, I'd venture that Grymkin was a pretty solid match up for the list as well. They don't bring a ton of guns and in general I had him out threated. The GMP mowed down the Dreadrots like it was nothing and the feat helped then to very solidly tank any counter strike, even with Fury in play. The two things that GMP don't like is being shot and being charged, and his lack of guns and my ability to jam in there to deny the charges worked well. There is a reason why the list gets paired with Rask.
Secondly, the Piggiebacks were a huge problem that I did not ever solve. I had an enormously hard time damaging them, and eventually solved the problem by jamming them out of scenario by wrapping them up with two units of Posse then just waiting it out. This is indicative that Maelok will possibly struggle versus a serious armor skew.
Finally, my list is far from optimized, particularly since I ain't no way going down the min Posse road. Down that road leads madness. So my list can very much be improved. It also still needs some testing versus a variety of opponents, match ups, and terrain. Ultimately however, it looks like this may bring back an old way to play Maelok, and open up playstyle options for the faction further, which is always super nice.
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Post by gdead909 on Mar 27, 2017 17:20:07 GMT
gdead909: Why a Walker with Rask? Good luck and kick some ass! Its 100% to spread out fury. I found without it I can't cover the board as well. Also its nice tho have that shield guard.
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Post by RamsesII on Mar 27, 2017 20:03:04 GMT
Secondly, the Piggiebacks were a huge problem that I did not ever solve. I had an enormously hard time damaging them, and eventually solved the problem by jamming them out of scenario by wrapping them up with two units of Posse then just waiting it out. What was the issue with the Piggybacks?
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Post by galiman on Mar 27, 2017 20:51:44 GMT
All of David Es lists are one point down. Could he have just used a chef? Or with Rask is going to down to 4 min posse that bad that he didn't add shamblers instead of the 5th unit? Also why the min posse hate Gaston?
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 27, 2017 21:15:31 GMT
Secondly, the Piggiebacks were a huge problem that I did not ever solve. I had an enormously hard time damaging them, and eventually solved the problem by jamming them out of scenario by wrapping them up with two units of Posse then just waiting it out. What was the issue with the Piggybacks? They can either get to P+S 18 each or 13/21 with certain Warlocks. At least, that's what I assume.
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Post by Swampmist on Mar 27, 2017 22:08:35 GMT
there is no +2\+2 buff in grymkin, the best they get is 13\19 against shooting under wanderer. Heretic does give them a turn of p+s18 though, yeah. Shoving them out of scenario seems to be the3 intended plan to beat them, beyond bringing push effects\tks\order stopping\chain weapons.
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Post by Gaston on Mar 28, 2017 0:01:38 GMT
All of David Es lists are one point down. Could he have just used a chef? Or with Rask is going to down to 4 min posse that bad that he didn't add shamblers instead of the 5th unit? Also why the min posse hate Gaston? He could have used a Chef. Maybe he didn't own one, he probably didn't care. Or he could be like Rickard and use that free point to troll those of us who have an OCD about building lists that perfectly use points... I dislike min Posse because I feel that it makes buffs more expensive. Death Pact only on 3 instead of 5 Gators, the same for Fury, Ghost Walk, etc. It matters much less if your plan is to DP Maelok or a Wrastler instead of a unit, or you are running a caster like Calaban who applies debuffs to enemies rather than buffing friendlies. It is more points efficient to run the min Posse, you do get more Gator flesh for your buck. Additionally, it does dilute the impact of your opponent's debuffs like Harm, Rebuke, etc. Also it costs more money to fully buy min units.
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 28, 2017 0:01:54 GMT
there is no +2\+2 buff in grymkin, the best they get is 13\19 against shooting under wanderer. Heretic does give them a turn of p+s18 though, yeah. Shoving them out of scenario seems to be the3 intended plan to beat them, beyond bringing push effects\tks\order stopping\chain weapons. Well hen, I'm going to have a talk with my opponent of last night.
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Post by Gaston on Mar 28, 2017 0:02:35 GMT
What was the issue with the Piggybacks? It is difficult for that list to hurt them without jumping through a lot of hoops. In general I am not a fan of their design, as it encourages a counter play of jamming them up and then just ignoring that section of the board. That is poor #designspace and pushes players toward having boring games. Also buffing their offensive output is not really a good answer to that, see Warders, circa 2015-2016. Conversely, I mowed through everything else in the Grymkin list with ease. So...
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