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Post by Alchemyst on Mar 16, 2017 5:58:30 GMT
Elara2 -Impy -Phoenix -Griffon Lanyssa Dahlia+Skarath Arcanist x3 Houseguard Thane Eiyrss2 Halberdiers (max) -UA -Soulless
Alternately, one could drop the whole Houseguard set and put in Max Sentinels + UA. That said, if you do do that, you lose out on a 17" charge threat range for the Halberds. It's honestly just 22 points to play around with for however you see fit.
At core, I think it's 21 points to start with, with: Elara2 (+28) Dahlia Hallyr + Skarath Arcanist x2 And build from there.
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Post by pluribus on Mar 16, 2017 11:26:17 GMT
Pluribus I think you are missing arcanists somewhere. Banshee caps at POW 20 without them and unless I went full on derp mode you have used all the points with what you posted. Whoops, you are right. Fixed. Although the three arcanists actually do fit in. I was writing from memory, and forgot the best models in the game!
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Post by praetorian on Apr 17, 2017 19:52:50 GMT
So, one thing this post misses is that Elara2 might be the only caster in faction to be able to get full use out of a jack marshal. For example, a jack marshaled hydra under her has all the benefits. With the aim true marshal bonus the hydra becomes pow 17 fully boosted. You always empower the hydra with the arcanists and if it is ever hit, your opponent is only helping with that focus management. You can use it as a late game piece. With crush, scything touch, boundless charge, concentrated power, and 3 focus the hydra has 6 pow 21 attacks. And if you are able to proc righteous vengeance you have a 13" treat.
Getting that interaction might sound like a whole heap of a lot of support from your caster but focus battery is the real boon of the hydra. On turns in which you aren't going to do much with your jacks, the arcanists can just run up and dump some focus into the hydra. Other than that it is merely one upkeep, plus boundless charge, only a 3 focus investment for a heavy that will possibly wreck a colossal, and will absolutely trade up with any model.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Apr 18, 2017 7:02:49 GMT
Here's what I've been running, yet to lose a game with it!
Elara2 - Imperatus - Phoenix - Chimera
Sentinels + UA Houseguard Halberdiers + UA
Houseguard Thane 2 Mage Hunter Assassin 2 Arcanist
- the Halberdiers threat for MILES under feat (more accurately, 15, but still) and if you can get scything touch on a target, they hit at P+S 16 at MAT 8 with minifeat, which is great. I find that enemies go to great lengths to remove the leader before he can pop the minifeat, but every time it's lead to them leaving something valuable out of position.
- The sentinels are sentinels. With the feat and Vengeance they also threat 15", or a very respectable 12" without vengeance. with mini-feat they can run through POW10 covering fire without much fear, and they kill things dead when they hit.
- The phoenix is a key piece. Lets Elara play further back against more assassination-focused lists by giving an arc node to spread buffs around the front line, has one of the naturally highest threat ranges in faction, and the 2" reach allows for a good coverage for dark shroud. I was initially running Hypnos in the same slot, but I've found the Phoenix's reach to be worth more than Hypnos' general utility.
- the two MHA have been solid gold every time I've played them. At their very worst, you can point the two of them at a Jack you've hit with dark shroud and (often) watch it evaporate. At their best, they can put serious pressure on casters while nibbling away the opponent's support - Elara has both a DEF debuff and an ARM debuff, which means there really aren't many casters that can feel safe from them.
- Imperatus tends NOT to go in on feat turn, or to go in on a secondary target on a flank. keeping him safe is a key to keeping up the pressure after alpha strike - if you can't manage a big enough attrition swing on feat turn, he can often exploit openings they leave trying to clear off the mass of infantry and jacks you just shoved in their face, and his sidestepping threat range is absurd, particularly since (with phoenix protocol) he can usually have the shields and systems to take a free strike or two.
- I would like to find room for a Lys healer in there somewhere - no-knockdown would let Elara play much further forward, even into assassination-matchups. I'm having trouble deciding what to drop for her, though - everything in the list seems pretty essential at this point
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Post by elladan52 on Apr 18, 2017 13:18:43 GMT
One more synergy for the halberdiers - cast ST on one of them and have then charge, then reposition that one into melee with another target to give the bonus against multiple targets for a turn.
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Post by deadlyninjacat on Apr 18, 2017 15:50:00 GMT
Probably a stupid question, but I don't play Elara enough to know.
Would you want to go first with her most of the time or is going second better?
Thanks for any replies
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Post by elladan52 on Apr 18, 2017 17:19:31 GMT
First. She doesn't care much about terrain, and it sets you up for a strong alpha strike.
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Post by psycomonky on Apr 18, 2017 18:46:50 GMT
I have found Elara to be a somewhat weak caster. Its odd because looking at her kit you have everything you want; damage buff, hit buff, speed boost, personal threat. But the whole is less than the sum of the parts.
Feat first: The feat is mainly there as a speed buff which multiple other casters have as a spell. You usually only get use for two units/jacks out of it, if your sending in the whole army at once your setting yourself up for failure. The pathfinder is nice but if you have sentinels as your main hitting block then your wasting that. Immunity to free strikes is cute but not something to plan to use so its mainly a bonus in 1/10 games.
Her hit buff is neat but requires either an arc node, which is a waste for one spell, or for her personally to risk her life. Removing stealth is nice but you have to get the arc node within 5 and spend a pile of focus. It ends up not being worth it.
Teleport is nice and combines well with blood boon but with the current dearth of infantry I see that I can trigger it off of it is usually a dead spell. I can see it being useful at times though.
Boundless charge is nice and can count as an expensive damage buff but again, we have other casters that can increase speed for models. Additionally it overlaps heavily with the feat so I end up only using it once a game if that.
Convection is trash, moving on.
So everything hinges on how necessary scything touch is. It is a buff for killing single high armor targets, its mostly useless against high armor units as you can only engage a couple. If you regularly see colossals or armor buffed jacks/beasts and cannot get rid of the buff then she ends up being ok. But if you are going for armor cracking then you are taking sentinels as they are the big hitters and your back to wasting half of the feat.
So, in the end she never seems to work out as well as she sounds like she should. That's my take on things after more than a few games.
Not as tanky as our tanky casters, not as hitty as our hitty casters, weaker alpha than our alpha casters (shooting > mele for the alpha). If you really want the constant damage buff thats all she really offers over the others. And i suspect Gorshade will make that a moot point shortly as all his previous incarnations had a damage buff of sorts (common mortality!).
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Apr 19, 2017 15:30:00 GMT
I have found Elara to be a somewhat weak caster. Its odd because looking at her kit you have everything you want; damage buff, hit buff, speed boost, personal threat. But the whole is less than the sum of the parts. I have personally had a lot of success with her simply because she is a super generalist that can really do everything. It may be true that our alpha casters alpha harder, our tanking caster tank better, and our hitty casters are more hitty but normally casters are only better than her in one of the three categories. The casters that out preform her on the alpha strike she out preforms in the other two ways and so on.
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Post by nightflier on Apr 19, 2017 21:15:50 GMT
I will say this about her. She has one of those tool boxes that make any model better. So if you got a new shiny and even if it's not considered an amazing model. It can make that model really shine. The even better part is that she uses debuffs to give damage and hitting buffs, and her feat is just friendly. So she even works with our mers options nothing better than a rat 10 holt or a danger wiggle that really put the hurt on!!!
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Post by psycomonky on Apr 20, 2017 1:01:13 GMT
I have found Elara to be a somewhat weak caster. Its odd because looking at her kit you have everything you want; damage buff, hit buff, speed boost, personal threat. But the whole is less than the sum of the parts. I have personally had a lot of success with her simply because she is a super generalist that can really do everything. It may be true that our alpha casters alpha harder, our tanking caster tank better, and our hitty casters are more hitty but normally casters are only better than her in one of the three categories. The casters that out preform her on the alpha strike she out preforms in the other two ways and so on. I dont really see her as a good generalist. My evaluation of that would be someone like kaelyssa. A generalist should have something useful to do every turn. Elara just seems to come into many turns with nothing valuable to perform leaving me feeling that any other caster would be better.
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Apr 20, 2017 1:10:26 GMT
I dont really see her as a good generalist. My evaluation of that would be someone like kaelyssa. A generalist should have something useful to do every turn. Elara just seems to come into many turns with nothing valuable to perform leaving me feeling that any other caster would be better. I guess that is simply a difference in experience and opinion then. Personally I have seen her do well and a sticking to her as one of the casters that I actively play. I really have to agree with Thurye on the point that she can really make anything shine no matter how hodgepodge the list she can give at least a little something to everyone. I really like her with Dahlia and Skarath.
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Post by nightflier on Apr 20, 2017 18:13:07 GMT
I have personally had a lot of success with her simply because she is a super generalist that can really do everything. It may be true that our alpha casters alpha harder, our tanking caster tank better, and our hitty casters are more hitty but normally casters are only better than her in one of the three categories. The casters that out preform her on the alpha strike she out preforms in the other two ways and so on. I dont really see her as a good generalist. My evaluation of that would be someone like kaelyssa. A generalist should have something useful to do every turn. Elara just seems to come into many turns with nothing valuable to perform leaving me feeling that any other caster would be better. I think I have to disagree with you. With scything touch and marked for death your game plan is really pick out the thing that needs to die that turn and apply the proper debuff, at least primarily after you deliver. She seems to be really reliant on your ability to target select. The only real issue for her is her lack of ability to deal with high arm small base infantry. Though this can be patched up a bit with the snake. Other issues can be fixed depending on unit selection. Such as units like halbs to handle shooting infantry. To be fair this is all theory. I don't ever get to play cause of where I live.
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