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Post by cageyj0nny on Mar 13, 2017 11:39:11 GMT
okay guys I have shiny toy syndrome and I really want to use Conquest (with B3) but im wondering if its just not worth it?
I know the butcher doesn't have much jack synergy in general but i cant help but think the points might be better spent elsewhere?
What are people's experiences / opinions?
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Post by skathrex on Mar 13, 2017 11:44:19 GMT
Of the hat, you lose Energizer with the Conquest and its not a good tool to hide Butcher behind imo.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Mar 13, 2017 12:22:24 GMT
In Mark 2 my main Butcher 3 list always had conquest, though I admittedly always had Malakov 1 to run it. That said, it's not the end of the world to run one with butcher 3. It can't make use of energizer sure, but it does like silence of death. And generally, if the conquest is killed it took a decent amount of the opponent's heavy hitters to do so. Butcher can then take them all out himself.
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Post by cageyj0nny on Mar 13, 2017 12:25:40 GMT
Thanks guys, I do have Malakov but ive never ran him. I might give that a go tomorrow night and see how it goes.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Mar 13, 2017 12:31:36 GMT
Remember that you're putting a lot of points on to Malakov, and if he dies, Conquest goes inert. Then remember that you've got Butcher, so you're still fine.
You can be a little agressive with the conquest. Use it to try and draw some attention away from Butcher. If the Conquest is destroyed, you're still fine because you've got Butcher on the table. If you're at risk of losing Malakov, try to position the conquest in a way that will annoy or hinder the other player, like on the edge of a zone on their side. Sure, the conquest can't contest or control, but it's still a huge base the opponent has to work around.
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Post by cageyj0nny on Mar 13, 2017 12:47:53 GMT
awesome, thanks for the advice!
im thinking this for tomorrow night:
War Room Army
Khador - Butcher3
Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army
Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22 - War Argus - Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan - PC: 4 - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17)
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4 Kovnik Andrei Malakov - PC: 4 - Conquest - PC: 37
Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 9 Grunts: 10 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 Widowmaker Scouts - Leader & 3 Grunts: 8
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Post by chrisbatson on Mar 13, 2017 13:02:14 GMT
The older theory was that most lists just can deal with both.
I'd play it agressive with it on B3 though.
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zeffid
Junior Strategist
Posts: 163
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Post by zeffid on Mar 13, 2017 13:53:19 GMT
I think the colossal with B3 is just not optimal. Though valid nevertheless with all that board control and ranged precense.
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Post by welshhoppo on Mar 13, 2017 18:16:27 GMT
I Dont know, Silence of Death is pretty good. The only issue is that B3s only range extender doesn't work on Connie.
But as an anchor, you could make a very beefy list with Man o Wars and Conquest. And just steamroller up the board. Wouldn't work against everyone, but what kills Conquest will then die to Butcher.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Mar 13, 2017 18:23:38 GMT
And that's what I think it comes down to, Welshhoppo. Butcher can't fully support it, sure. But give it to Malakov and get it up the board. Those big scary things that will kill it have to deal with the Butcher, and that's much more frightening!
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Post by khador247 on Mar 13, 2017 18:40:26 GMT
The thing is with B3 you always want to have that threat to reach out and touch someone with Lola. If B3 is hunkered down behind Conquest and Conquest gets hung up then it can limit what B3 can do. Also, the only things B3 can give Conquest are focus and +2 STR which it doesn't really need. Energizer is an incredibly useful spell in my experience and having multiple heavies to use it on is a nice thing. The issue I'm seeing with list building is that it becomes difficult to take colossals and character jacks when our base model jacks are both cheap and very effective. A simple 10 pt Marauder or 12 pt Juggernaut can get a lot of work done in MKIII. Multiple heavies can also cover more of the board. This is good when playing Steamroller. The one character/colossal that is still always tempting is Behemoth even though he's pricy because two 4 inch AOEs with Powerful Shot and Arcing Fire is really good.
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Post by cageyj0nny on Mar 14, 2017 8:37:57 GMT
I think im going to go with B3, dogs, ruin, maddy and widowmakers one flank (depending on scenario) and conquest, Malakov and the winterguard on the other. Malaakov can sac pawn onto the WG and hopefully ill pass a few tough rolls.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 14, 2017 9:44:11 GMT
The B3 way of operation is simple. Present opponent with X points of hard to remove stuff he has to remove and then kill whatever he committed with B3.
Conquest definitely demands to be removed, but it's easy to remove relatively to it's point cost. The way to fix it I think is to take mow shockies and put them in front of Conquest. You'll have a durable 2 layers which both require committing heavies to remove them and then B3 final boss.
So: B3 -Conquest -Dog Shockies+UA+Kovnik min Mechaniks
And then whatever.
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Post by cageyj0nny on Mar 14, 2017 10:28:24 GMT
Would putting all those MOW in front of conquest not really clog things up? Im playing against circle tonight and we have both agreed to use our colossal's (he's using woldwrath) for the first time, so that gives you guys some ideas of what im up against.
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Post by cageyj0nny on Mar 15, 2017 11:01:24 GMT
Thought id give you guys an update of how the game went.
So my opponent was using baldur 2, 2 waldworden's, magalith, 2 Blackclad Wayfarer's, and some healing stone thingys.
So, this was a pretty bad matchup for B3 because Roots of the Earth was on pissing everything. All of the time. So no Butchery pushing shenanigans for me. . I sent ruin in for at the Waldwrath otherwise he would have sent it in at me, did a bit of damage but he obviously got wrecked in the next turn. So at this point both argus are dead and I sent in B3 in to finish off the Waldwrath which he does but I did have use my Feat (arm23 makes me sad).
In the end a combo between the wintergaurd and sending in eliminators at Baldur won me the game. Conquest was only really used as a mobile gun platform so I think I could have used him better.
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