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Post by ComboSmiteNick on Mar 16, 2017 13:46:37 GMT
Tinkers are awesome. I have 2. Colbie and Raluk are both pretty bad. The clincher to me is that the Tinker is DEF18 against ranged and magic attacks all the time. Nobody is trivially sniping out your support. And for some reason the even give him a gun.
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Post by babadook on Mar 16, 2017 19:58:55 GMT
Just a quick question to verify: Caine3's feat works the same way, Synergy does, right? i.e. I can shoot with shoot with Ryan, decide to feat and shot with +1, because a member of the battlegroup has already hit...
Other than that I am surprised that so many people are playing Galleon without Orin and an Ogrun Bokur. I am way to afraid to bring a colossal without the defensive tech against the likes of Eiryss or Stranglehold... However, it REALLY hurts the point budget a lot.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Mar 16, 2017 20:27:07 GMT
Just a quick question to verify: Caine3's feat works the same way, Synergy does, right? i.e. I can shoot with shoot with Ryan, decide to feat and shot with +1, because a member of the battlegroup has already hit.. Since they are a unit, yes, but you can't "pre-load" it by having other jacks hit first.
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Post by ComboSmiteNick on Mar 16, 2017 22:09:34 GMT
Just a quick question to verify: Caine3's feat works the same way, Synergy does, right? i.e. I can shoot with shoot with Ryan, decide to feat and shot with +1, because a member of the battlegroup has already hit.. Since they are a unit, yes, but you can't "pre-load" it by having other jacks hit first. That's not how synergy works. Its not retroactive privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?270502-Is-Synergy-RetroactiveI see no reason Caine's feat would work that way. Edit: privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?268545-Caine3-and-timingEdit2: What you CAN do is activate the unit. Pop feat with Caine then do Ryan and Watts' combat actions first, giving caine a +2/+2 for his shots.
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Post by babadook on Mar 17, 2017 4:44:51 GMT
Ok, great, in that case I was cheated by a buddy of mine who said it is retroactive AND it was ruled by an infernal... It was regarding Synergy, but like you I do not see any reason, why it should be any different.
What do you guys think about Ogrun and Orin? Have you tried playing the list into Cryx (Denny1) or Circle (Wurmwood) and lived to tell the tale without them?
@nick Love your Podcast, I am always listening to it while commuting and it is really enjoyable! I would love to hear your thoughts on your thoughts on the faction reviews. Do you think you were right? Where have you been wrong? Stuff like that!
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Mar 17, 2017 12:58:18 GMT
I suppose my wording was confusing. I wanted to make sure I added that piece because I've heard a lot of people talking about pre-loading the feet with Buccaneers even though synergy doesn't do that either.
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Post by ComboSmiteNick on Mar 18, 2017 6:40:33 GMT
@nick Love your Podcast, I am always listening to it while commuting and it is really enjoyable! I would love to hear your thoughts on your thoughts on the faction reviews. Do you think you were right? Where have you been wrong? Stuff like that! Thanks babadook. That's kind of you. My thoughts on my thoughts?? First off, the faction reviews were all a ton of fun to do (and a lot of work) and were really well received by everyone. The quality of the review was definitely proportional to our experience with the faction. In particular we didn't do the greatest job with the Circle review because we weren't familiar enough with the models. For Mercs: - I think we undervalued the Talon a bit. I still think it's offensive output is trash but I can see it's value in HP/ARM spam lists and as a defensive tool in a list or killing dudes. - I still hate the loader rule but I might need to pick up a Mariner for Caine3 - I think we over valued Freebooters and undervalued Bucaneers. I can't remember if there was anything else controversial but if you have specific questions I can try to answer them.
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Tucker
Junior Strategist
Posts: 103
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Post by Tucker on Mar 19, 2017 0:51:38 GMT
I've played half a dozen games with the Hellslingers using this army:
Caine3 -Vanguard x 2 -Galleon Rheinholdt Rhupert Tinker Aiyana & Holt Cutthroats (10)
It's worked out pretty well. I really like the battlegroup, as the Vanguards screen the rest of the army, contest zones, and protect Caine, while the Galleon kills stuff.
The Hellslingers usually set up way out on the flank to keep their distance from the enemy and slowly rotate in towards the middle of the board as threats are eliminated. This limits their ability to assassinate but it does wonders for keeping them alive, especially with Concealment and Shield Guard being readily available.
Aiyana & Holt are great in combination with the feat and Calamity, letting you bust some serious ARM. You could swap them out for Ragman or drop them entirely, but I would hesitate to do so.
The rest of the army I can take or leave. Rhupert is nice but not essential. Same with Rheinholdt. I feel that this army wants a unit to screen Galleon at times and something that can hang out on a flank and contest scenario, and the Cutthroats can do both. You could swap them for another unit very easily (maybe one that would make easier use of Rhupert, thereby increasing his value) but they're nice for scoring some easy damage on occasion.
Oddly enough I feel the Tinker is the best part of the army outside of the battlegroup. Without an ARM buff it's easy for the Galleon to get dinged up so the Tinker acts an ARM replacement.
Caine3 is a better warcaster than I initially thought, though I think he could definitely use more warjack points. With so few points, and the Galleon and Vanguards being slightly overcosted, the army is really small and struggles have enough combat units across the board. Going forward I'll try to trim the support (not that there's all that much of it) and fit in more damage-dealers.
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Post by babadook on Mar 20, 2017 7:44:53 GMT
@nick That is exactly what I wanted to know, thanks! @ Caine3 I got the first two games with him yesterday with this list: Caine's Hellslingers [+20] - Ryan 2 & Watts 2 - Galleon [39] - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator [4] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] Anastasia di Bray [3] Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios [7] Ogrun Bokur [5] Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4] I played into the Ghostfleet led by Denny2 and Wurmwood, two of the matchups my usual pairing is struggling with in order to see, if he could cover it. I lost both games, but it did not feel like loss both times. I did not yet play the list well enough and I was surprised by how strong Caine3 actually is on the table. The assassination is very real, but unfortunately there is so much support needed. Against Cryx especially the Ghostfleet A&H are mandatory, but in other matchups I could very well play without them. Orin and the Ogrun Bokur are both universal support, that is so versatile and good in this list, that I would not want to play without them. Anastasia was just in because I had 3 points left and I like her utility, but when I played I noticed how badly Caine3 wants to have the first turn (No spells to sling means you can run up 14" and threaten also the whole board with the assassination) and I think Anastasia is almost an auto-include unless her points would enable another actual fighting unit. Eiryss1 is simply there because of the strong assassination threat, but I almost feel like I could get rid of her. Usually you will need to cast Magesight with Caine first which means, she will only be able to shoot the target before the Galleon does his thing, but this will only make a difference against Hordes-Caster like Wurmwood, who are camping at least 3 and have ARM 20+. And as Loki is a thing, even that will not help... Potential additional points incoming. Rhupert is great. Handing out Tough, Concealment and Pathfinder to the Hellsingers or Idrians can make the difference, but at the same time, I am not sure, if he is really necessary. In general, he is really fun to play!
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Post by xc18 on Mar 20, 2017 11:14:22 GMT
Very nice feedbacks, thx guys!
Not sure what you mean about eyriss and mage sight though (the spell benefits only the Battlegroup).
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Post by babadook on Mar 20, 2017 11:58:32 GMT
Very nice feedbacks, thx guys! Not sure what you mean about eyriss and mage sight though (the spell benefits only the Battlegroup). Damn you are right. I misread that. That makes Eiryss actually even worse. Thanks for correcting me!
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Mar 20, 2017 13:11:12 GMT
Caine3 is a better warcaster than I initially thought, though I think he could definitely use more warjack points. With so few points, and the Galleon and Vanguards being slightly overcosted, the army is really small and struggles have enough combat units across the board. Going forward I'll try to trim the support (not that there's all that much of it) and fit in more damage-dealers. I was wondering about Vanguards. I liked the idea of shield guards and a surprisingly decent gun on feat turn/hellslinger replacement for loading the Galleon, but at 22 points, it seemed like a lot. Are you finding that they make their points back in value?
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Tucker
Junior Strategist
Posts: 103
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Post by Tucker on Mar 20, 2017 13:56:56 GMT
I was wondering about Vanguards. I liked the idea of shield guards and a surprisingly decent gun on feat turn/hellslinger replacement for loading the Galleon, but at 22 points, it seemed like a lot. Are you finding that they make their points back in value? If you take a Galleon you need something to screen it, to block out enemy infantry and redirect enemy heavies with long threat ranges. You want a warjack with a gun to trigger the feat in case one of the Hellslingers misses his shot so the Galleon can shoot with the full +3. And you want to provide some protection against shooting and/or magic for Caine3 so he can operate near the middle of the board and bully the enemy with his guns. The Vanguard does all three, and it's happy operating with a single focus. It can also perform power attacks so it brings some extra utility. I don't think you need a Vanguard but you need something that does all three of its jobs.
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Post by koku0ryu on Mar 21, 2017 11:00:32 GMT
@nick That is exactly what I wanted to know, thanks! @ Caine3 I got the first two games with him yesterday with this list: Caine's Hellslingers [+20] - Ryan 2 & Watts 2 - Galleon [39] - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator [4] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] Anastasia di Bray [3] Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios [7] Ogrun Bokur [5] Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4] I played into the Ghostfleet led by Denny2 and Wurmwood, two of the matchups my usual pairing is struggling with in order to see, if he could cover it. I lost both games, but it did not feel like loss both times. I did not yet play the list well enough and I was surprised by how strong Caine3 actually is on the table. The assassination is very real, but unfortunately there is so much support needed. Against Cryx especially the Ghostfleet A&H are mandatory, but in other matchups I could very well play without them. Orin and the Ogrun Bokur are both universal support, that is so versatile and good in this list, that I would not want to play without them. Anastasia was just in because I had 3 points left and I like her utility, but when I played I noticed how badly Caine3 wants to have the first turn (No spells to sling means you can run up 14" and threaten also the whole board with the assassination) and I think Anastasia is almost an auto-include unless her points would enable another actual fighting unit. Eiryss1 is simply there because of the strong assassination threat, but I almost feel like I could get rid of her. Usually you will need to cast Magesight with Caine first which means, she will only be able to shoot the target before the Galleon does his thing, but this will only make a difference against Hordes-Caster like Wurmwood, who are camping at least 3 and have ARM 20+. And as Loki is a thing, even that will not help... Potential additional points incoming. Rhupert is great. Handing out Tough, Concealment and Pathfinder to the Hellsingers or Idrians can make the difference, but at the same time, I am not sure, if he is really necessary. In general, he is really fun to play! Did you ambush Anastasia in to charge a model in the back? VS Eiryss, for example, Annie rolls 3 attack dice and 4 damage dice needing an 8 to hit and a 9 to kill, all from 13.5" from the board edge
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Post by babadook on Mar 21, 2017 12:31:57 GMT
No Anastasia did nothing of the sort, unfortunately my opponents are too experienced to still let that happen. They are used to being abused by my Bog Trog Ambushers (from my Minions) and keep exact track where they can go. But that is still worthwhile, because it limits the board space they can actually use.
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