studderingdave
Junior Strategist
May the Gods have mercy on your soul.
Posts: 114
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Post by studderingdave on Mar 12, 2017 0:39:34 GMT
What are you doing with our new Caine unit in Mercs? Anyone else drawing a blank or is it just me?
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Post by koalafrog on Mar 12, 2017 7:06:26 GMT
Nothing for the moment, as said previously by others, it's likely that PP will release a light human jack with a gun (Duelist?), until then I don't think this caster has a career with mercs. Then I am not sure he is great in Cygnar too.
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Post by thetrooper on Mar 12, 2017 12:27:23 GMT
In mercs, I look at having a great turn with the galleon and a lot of self sufficient shooting / melee units. Caine 3 is even more of a super solo than Caine 2. He is a debuff/buff bot, depending on what side of the gun you are facing.
My Caine 2 lists were always best when they focused on his assassination ability and assuming he won't aid them at all. I suppose Caine 3 is all about being a calamity bot.
I hope the duelist is a thing, in Cygnar, they can just spam hunters without thinking. Otherwise, they are fortunate to have such a nice variety of combined arms jacks like Dynamo, stormwall, defender, hell even the stormclad would like him and he it as generator blades love calamity.
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studderingdave
Junior Strategist
May the Gods have mercy on your soul.
Posts: 114
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Post by studderingdave on Mar 12, 2017 13:53:27 GMT
My initial offering:
3Caine and crew - Reinholt - Galleon - Mule - Vanguard Max Nyss Epic Eiryss
So the plan is assassination. Locomotion is interesting on the Mule get a sweet 15 inch aiming shot with the crit dev gun. While I made the list I admit I am not really feeling the list I wracked my brain last nigh more than i tend to do on a new caster. I woke up this morning and restructured my thinking. I am focusing too much on his feat, which is really subpar at the moment without a spammable light to get value from (can you imagine him with gun bunnies? lol).
So maybe the feat is a trap.
With that idea I can see minimalizing the use of it but still running Galleon as the lone warjack in the BG. Past that I like heavy hitters and it seems that Nyss are good for speed and hammer dwarfs are good for punch. Seeing that Caine does nothing for threat range I lean towards nyss on this one, possibly a min hammer dwarfs for a vanguard and second line. I wonder if going full into ranged support outside of the BG has merit. Sufficient units/solos are something we have plenty of.
So, this is just a spitball list. More of me using some stuff that could be cute and just put it on the table and see what happens
3Caine and crew - Galleon Rorsh -Brine Max Nyss Devilshadow Min Forgeguard Rhupert
Nyss form the frontal screen while Galleon pot shots early and focuses on the feat turn. Plenty of black penny helps clear out jams. Calamity can help output in general. Devilshadow great at scenario play. FG take the center and just plod toward the heaviest target. Rorsh and Brine are wild cards and can produce some interesting vectors of attack. Gonna try this list next week for sure.
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Post by John Spencer on Mar 12, 2017 19:03:23 GMT
Since your first list has one point left, i'd probably swap the Nyss for Idrians. Otherwise, I really like the concept.
Aside from knowing that Galleon is the way forward, I'm not really sure what else to do with him.
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studderingdave
Junior Strategist
May the Gods have mercy on your soul.
Posts: 114
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Post by studderingdave on Mar 12, 2017 20:14:59 GMT
We figured it out. After hours of crunching amongst locals we all agreed on the first real list:
Caine and Crew Reinholt Galleon Max Idrains with UA The Devil Shadow Mutineers Aiyaha and Holt pEiryss Taryn Rhupert
lots of moving parts here so bear with me. i am kinda proud that i just didn't give up on this because now i am super hyped to put this list on. I am going to break down the pieces of the list first and then go over some of the finer points of the list. This is an assassination list, but given the internal parts of the list it can play as a mobile attrition force and can leverage so much firepower that it might just power down threats as they come.
Caine Unit - The unit itself is a powerhouse. Caine can dump 4-5 shots out himself, with Grievous and Shadow fire available in the unit it makes a very good show for killing enemy casters. Caine loves reinholt, nothing new here. His spell list is kinda lackluster but he has enough to get some stuff done. Locomotion is lost int he above list unfortunately.
Reinholt - extra gunshot or spotty stealth removal when caine is low focus.
Galleon - The most "value" you can get from a merc jack so we run it.
Idrians - Solid ranged unit that can hang in melee at times. Preying a warcaster that is under calamity turns guns into POW 15's.
Devil shadow - I am just trying these guys out. Consider this unit a flex slot that can be used elsewhere, but ranged weaponmaster guns on Zira stacks very well with calamity and harm.
Aiyana and holt - no real explanation needed. The list already gushes magic weapons, but the damage multiplier is even sweeter in this list because it spams a ton of shots.
pEiryss - needs no introduction
Taryn - Shadowfire so we connect with casters easier.
rhupert - also not super important, but we can tough the idrians or the caine unit. this could easily be ragman to get Galleon higher on melee output if that becomes and issue.
So the moving parts are all described basically. The caine unit can threat a caster at 16/18 inches. We can flicker into a walk then shoot. 6 focus is rough but we can deal with it. 6 focus means we can fuel Galleon to full. Siting on 4 focus we can start our turn. If Taryn is alive a relevant we shadowfire stuff blocking our LOS. The next issue is a matter of preference and risk. Obviously we would like to stick the harm for Aiayana on the enemy caster first, but since most casters are DEF 15 and up it can be dicey. Apply this as you choose. I would go with the Caine unit first. I start with using Reinholt to give Caine reloader. Caine activates and pops feat. Utilize a basic move and or Flicker to get into range of enemy caster. For this example lets say we don't flicker. If you see that flicker is a MUST before we start than Galleon only gets 1-2 focus (0-1 from caine plus power up). If we flicker we should be on 3-4 focus. Continue with Caine. First initial shot RAT 9 POW 12. Use a focus to boost the hit if you need too (usually yes because it is a key shot). Stick the hit and cast calamity on the target (zero focus remaining). Second initial is effective RAT 11 POW 14. Use your reloaded shot for another POW 14. If we didnt flicker this turn we can reload ourselves, once with each pistol, for another two POW 14 attacks. Feat synergy +1.
Watts activates and shoots. Grievous or Brutal based on conditions. Brutal shot would be effective RAT 11 POW 13 with the feat up. Watts ends Feat Synergy +2.
Ryan activates. She shoots at effective RAT 12 POW 14x2. Feat synergy maxes out at +3.
At this point you can opt to stick an Eiryss Bolt or Harm from Aiyana in there. Calamity making Aiyana and effect Magic ATTACK 9 or Eiryss RAT 11.
After this you can leverage the rest of your army as you see fit. Idrians, DSM and Galleon can clean up if the caster isnt already dead. Even with a single focus galleon is producing 2d3 RAT 10 POW 18 shots and a harpoon attack, with a focus to boost something if needed.
Whew, long post. Obviously the above example is a perfect storm, and terrain and causalities can and will much up the sequencing, but I think we found a workable list to at least start testing.
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Post by koku0ryu on Mar 12, 2017 20:31:33 GMT
I've had a pretty good run with just Caine3 and Galleon as battlegroup. That's all thats really needed. Aside from that, the rest of my list looks similar to the way I run Ashlynn, bunch of self-sufficient stuff that works well together.
Caine3 -Corbeau -Galleon Anastasia di Bray Dougal MacNaile Savio Colbie Sterling PEiryss Ragman Croe's Cutthroats Thorn Gunmages
studderingdave's list above also seems like a solid choice too. Until we get a damaging ranged jack for under 10 points, I don't see Caine running more than Galleon
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studderingdave
Junior Strategist
May the Gods have mercy on your soul.
Posts: 114
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Post by studderingdave on Mar 12, 2017 21:38:21 GMT
How is your long game with the above list? Obviously we bend towards assassination. What is your other list?
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Post by John Spencer on Mar 12, 2017 23:12:10 GMT
I was thinking the list needs Dougal or Herne & Jonne. Artillerist for +2 to hit with the Galleon cannons is pretty good. Stutteringdave's list could probably go either way, since Zira would get Double Powder Ration as well as Galleon. Otherwise I find Herne & Jonne to be better value.
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studderingdave
Junior Strategist
May the Gods have mercy on your soul.
Posts: 114
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Post by studderingdave on Mar 12, 2017 23:25:46 GMT
Artillerist is only the first attack now. I see the value of dougal though. Good call.
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Post by koku0ryu on Mar 13, 2017 11:51:19 GMT
How is your long game with the above list? Obviously we bend towards assassination. What is your other list? There's a long game? Joking aside, if I feel I can't assassinate, I usually settle for destroying the enemy battlegroup, then either banking on Corbeau to protect and walking down the middle of the board killing everything, of hanging back and using superior range to attrition a scenario win. I haven't really hammered down a pair for Caine, but it would likely be ConnieB or Fiona
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studderingdave
Junior Strategist
May the Gods have mercy on your soul.
Posts: 114
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Post by studderingdave on Mar 13, 2017 12:10:16 GMT
I like how your mind avoids the main mercenary casters. I'm pairing with Connie B until I paint up my cephalyx. Then I'll prolly pair Caine with Thexus.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Mar 13, 2017 15:03:39 GMT
I'm actually taking a totally different approach and am playing for scenario:
Caine and the Hellslingers Galleon (WJ + 19pts) Corbeau (4 pts)
Max Halberdiers (11pts) Max Halberdiers (11pts) Alexia and the Risen (10pts) Horgenhold Artillery Corps (6 pts) Horgenhold Artillery Corps (6 pts) Sgt. Nick (4 pts) Rhupert Carvolo (4 pts)
Rhupert and Nick keep the jamming brick in tact. The artillery corps clear blockages and can mess up armor. Corbeau lets Caine play a LOT further up. We get everything into position, pop feat and Galleon wrecks as much as possible (prioritizing heavies), jamming brick moves to secure objectives.
It's not perfect, but it has fewer bad matchups than I feel like the assassination versions have.
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Post by ComboSmiteNick on Mar 13, 2017 15:06:01 GMT
We figured it out. After hours of crunching amongst locals we all agreed on the first real list: Caine and Crew Reinholt Galleon Max Idrains with UA The Devil Shadow Mutineers Aiyaha and Holt pEiryss Taryn Rhupert Since you already have shadowfire on Ryan I would strongly consider dropping Taryn for Rockbottom. He turns the DSM up to 11 and gets work done himself with his spray. Alternatively you could drop Rhupert for him instead, as you said he's not super critical to the list. But tough Idrians can be a pain to deal with.
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studderingdave
Junior Strategist
May the Gods have mercy on your soul.
Posts: 114
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Post by studderingdave on Mar 13, 2017 15:09:04 GMT
An interesting suggestion. I already dropped Rupert for Dougal though. I plan to keep Taryn in for now because optimally I want Ryan to be shooting brutal not shadow fire and needing her to shoot first messes up feat sequencing.
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