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Post by droopingpuppy on Mar 11, 2017 17:20:40 GMT
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uuKEMILjW0kUkdZY01uZJFDbrQf24G-mxZ01njD8cIY/edit?usp=sharingI was posted it in PP forum but it is lost.  If you wonder how to choose Caine3's battlegroup warjack in the feat turn, then I think that it will be useful. Basic target enemy is a 12/18+20 model, such as Dire Troll with Protective Aura. But, you can copy the sheet and change the stat as you want. All warjacks are assumed that they are in Caine3's battlegroup. And also assumed that Caine3, Lyan2 and Watts2 already hits the enemy at least once and all warjacks are able to enjoy +3 to attack and damage rolls. Ionization means that it also consider the point of Firefly(8 points), and assumed that it have run that turn without making an attack - except for the section 'Firefly+Ionization'. Grenadier assumed that it doesn't pay for Trencher models. If you want to use them, then also think about the point cost of Trencher models as well. 'FOC' part does nothing in the calculation, but it notes how much focus point is required to do it. Caine3 have up to 6+1(Squire)+1(Arlan) focus points, and it will be reduced further if he casts some spells or boost the roll/making Reload. Of course Power Up is already considered, and 0 on FOC means that the warjack was making a boosted damage roll. So, if you can spare two focus points to a warjack, Grenadier is the the most point efficient gun provides you also have some Trencher models too. Even without any focus points, Grenadier is still king. But again, you also need some Trencher models. Minuteman's damage output is very good, but it requires too much focus, as well as have very short range. If you rolled high and put 2 focus on it, then Cyclone is good. Otherwise, it is still not so good. Dynamo is good. Also consider its good melee capability, you better consider it first. Charger is a good choice as well.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Mar 11, 2017 22:41:09 GMT
I think the charger is the king of focus to damage output and reliability, but outside of feat it's a little lacking.
The most efficient jack for focus is the Hunter, being that it needs none from Caine, but it gets the least value from his abilities.
I think gravediggers will be a big deal for Caine if it is good. A theme that allows trenchers will help.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396 
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Post by Haight on Mar 12, 2017 1:25:00 GMT
I like mixes of chargers / grenadiers / Cyclones myself... it's not 100% optimized, but its got good overall output, and i like trenchers with Caine3 already. In addition you steer clear of a spam list that will, on a long enough timeline, end up gathering dust (whether that's with a nerf or edition change, or whatever... i've bought into my last spam list with PP, that's for sure).
Believe it or not, i actually like an avenger with him too. That pie plate can Firetruck shit up with the feat and / or calamity, and the KD is never a bad thing. If you are running Grenadiers with trencher modules, then the master gunner can help both simultaneously (it can reload a gren, and then use its abilities on the avenger, or it can do both for a gren, etc). It's a good backup melee jack too which you sometimes need. It's more expensive than most other options so you have to build the list wisely, but its not a terrible option if you're opting for a single heavy in the list.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Mar 12, 2017 6:27:34 GMT
I like mixes of chargers / grenadiers / Cyclones myself... it's not 100% optimized, but its got good overall output, and i like trenchers with Caine3 already. In addition you steer clear of a spam list that will, on a long enough timeline, end up gathering dust (whether that's with a nerf or edition change, or whatever... i've bought into my last spam list with PP, that's for sure). Believe it or not, i actually like an avenger with him too. That pie plate can Firetruck shit up with the feat and / or calamity, and the KD is never a bad thing. If you are running Grenadiers with trencher modules, then the master gunner can help both simultaneously (it can reload a gren, and then use its abilities on the avenger, or it can do both for a gren, etc). It's a good backup melee jack too which you sometimes need. It's more expensive than most other options so you have to build the list wisely, but its not a terrible option if you're opting for a single heavy in the list. The fact that the Avenger is more expensive than the defender is a huge kick in the pants for me. Like it's worse in most meaningful ways apart from the knockdown which is good, but not great, at its limited range is a big deal. |
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Post by droopingpuppy on Mar 12, 2017 10:59:50 GMT
I think the charger is the king of focus to damage output and reliability, but outside of feat it's a little lacking. The most efficient jack for focus is the Hunter, being that it needs none from Caine, but it gets the least value from his abilities. I think gravediggers will be a big deal for Caine if it is good. A theme that allows trenchers will help. Of course Hunter is the best 'point filler' jack because it doesn't need any focus of Caine. After choose enough jack that needs some focus points, you better fill the remaining points by Hunter or non-battlegroup choices. If you want to utilize Caine3's spells, you can't spare much focus points for your warjacks as well. Also, although its damage per turn is not so good, but its good RNG allows it to shoot more turns than the others. ---- Avenger's selling point is its support nature as well as melee capability. Only for the ranged damage output it is only mediocre, but it is not Avenger is good at. Knockdown gives line of sight easier, and ensures that you can hit most nimble targets reliably. Also P+S 18 melee weapon can crack armor well. Although Lyan2 has Shadow Fire and Feat also gives accuracy bonus so Caine3 don't need it, but it can have its day. But anyway it is true that many of its advantages are not much good for Caine3. |
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Post by Aegis on Mar 12, 2017 12:46:06 GMT
Nice and handy! I'm also going to experiment a bit with Caine3 as soon as I finish painting it
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Post by yoloswaggins on Mar 12, 2017 15:39:31 GMT
I just impulse bought Caine3 over the weekend and I've had this spreadsheet up while trying to figure out a list so thank you for that  I'm going to try Dynamo, Grenadiers, and Minutemen with him and see how it goes. Hurricane looks scrumptious with him too. |
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Post by bob on Mar 12, 2017 20:52:27 GMT
droped this into a baldur1 this afternoon conflictchamber.com/#b11bgW9b9b9gaxak9C9Ua4an9uCygnar Army - 75 / 75 points (Caine 3) Caine's Hellslingers [+20] - Ryan 2 & Watts 2 - Charger [9] - Charger [9] - Grenadier [9] - Avenger [17] - Squire [5] - Cyclone [13] Trencher Infantry (max) [16] Rangers [9] Captain Arlan Strangewayes [4] Ragman [4] Feat turn + calamity was great attrition swing. Ragman + calamity + ranger make trencher pow15rat10 pow15mat8boosted each on a charge. Cyclone was unimpressive. Grenadier have great potential but without revive it's a bit trickier (i am not an expert haley3) Avenger didn't have time to perform and baldur 1 toolkit negated him^^ i want to give him another chance vs jack Focus starving is real kd menace is real too :/ dice saved me but i should have died. maybe a more conservative play style is what i should do, destroy 1 heavy per turn retreat and keep feat as a death blow. I want to try thorn at some point for 17" threat range assassination menace. was only 1,5 game (we mini feated after an overextend of baldur turn1) while i am not sure i like caine3 he got games for sure. |
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 12, 2017 22:04:35 GMT
I think the charger is the king of focus to damage output and reliability, but outside of feat it's a little lacking. The most efficient jack for focus is the Hunter, being that it needs none from Caine, but it gets the least value from his abilities. I think gravediggers will be a big deal for Caine if it is good. A theme that allows trenchers will help. Of course Hunter is the best 'point filler' jack because it doesn't need any focus of Caine. After choose enough jack that needs some focus points, you better fill the remaining points by Hunter or non-battlegroup choices. If you want to utilize Caine3's spells, you can't spare much focus points for your warjacks as well. Also, although its damage per turn is not so good, but its good RNG allows it to shoot more turns than the others. ---- Avenger's selling point is its support nature as well as melee capability. Only for the ranged damage output it is only mediocre, but it is not Avenger is good at. Knockdown gives line of sight easier, and ensures that you can hit most nimble targets reliably. Also P+S 18 melee weapon can crack armor well. Although Lyan2 has Shadow Fire and Feat also gives accuracy bonus so Caine3 don't need it, but it can have its day. But anyway it is true that many of its advantages are not much good for Caine3. I like it because rush lists do exist (not the animus, meaning fast moving melee lists), and chargers do Firetruck all in melee.  An avenger can still Firetruck some shit up on top of what it brings ranged wise. I like playing it with trenchers and grenadiers, as then i'm likely already bringing the master gunner who has two special actions that can be very useful (+2 to hit, or arc'ing fire) on top. So its still a ranged heavy (albeit, expensive one, granted), but i can do well in melee, and it synergizes with other stuff i'm likely to bring. This helps smooth out the cost factor. I don't use it every list, but i've been happy to have an avenger along with Caine3 in more than a few games. Not all of them, but definitely a few. |
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An avenger can still Firetruck some shit up on top of what it brings ranged wise. I like playing it with trenchers and grenadiers, as then i'm likely already bringing the master gunner who has two special actions that can be very useful (+2 to hit, or arc'ing fire) on top. So its still a ranged heavy (albeit, expensive one, granted), but i can do well in melee, and it synergizes with other stuff i'm likely to bring. This helps smooth out the cost factor.