Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Sept 7, 2017 6:26:43 GMT
Wait, so I'm going to stop being the unique snowflake who takes Testament to tournaments ? And people will stop smirking when I tell them Testament is great and I'm doing pretty well with him ? Sad days (well, actually they don't smirk, I think the Testament is respected in Poland, just nobody plays him. People used to smirk on the internet, though ) As mcdaddy says in the beginning - Testament's weakness is having to avoid certain popular pairings. But if he does that, his recursion is really overwhelming for all other opponents.
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Sept 7, 2017 6:30:17 GMT
As mcdaddy says in the beginning - Testament's weakness is having to avoid certain popular pairings. But if he does that, his recursion is really overwhelming for all other opponents. So you're saying.., so long as you don't face the current tournament meta, Testament is really good? On a serious note, I did love Testament in MK2 (shamelessly stealing Gaston's list with success). I would love to see him work well in MK3.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Sept 7, 2017 6:42:48 GMT
As mcdaddy says in the beginning - Testament's weakness is having to avoid certain popular pairings. But if he does that, his recursion is really overwhelming for all other opponents. So you're saying.., so long as you don't face the current tournament meta, Testament is really good? In a way, yes ;D But it's just some of the lists, not all of them. Sometimes just your second list will have to do the work, as usual, in other cases Testament will be a seriously tough nut to crack. Also, as I was avoiding those match ups, using the other list, I have no real experience against them. Maybe in some of the cases the counter is just a mild annoyance, not a debilitating effect making the list useless.
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marke
Junior Strategist
Posts: 187
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Post by marke on Sept 7, 2017 9:40:38 GMT
Wait, so I'm going to stop being the unique snowflake who takes Testament to tournaments ? And people will stop smirking when I tell them Testament is great and I'm doing pretty well with him ? Sad days (well, actually they don't smirk, I think the Testament is respected in Poland, just nobody plays him. People used to smirk on the internet, though ) As mcdaddy says in the beginning - Testament's weakness is having to avoid certain popular pairings. But if he does that, his recursion is really overwhelming for all other opponents. I just started Menoth and without knowing anything about the new hotness I thought Testament looks playable with Exemplars.. Not to take anything away from you but his strengths in interdiction are pretty obvious, and Im surprised top level competition only discovers this now.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 7, 2017 12:30:27 GMT
I think once faithful Masses becomes official Testament is going to be a bit of a beast. Part of the issue with Exemplar interdiction is that a lot of the RFP in game is in melee right now so once those exemplars commit, they can get RFP'ed easier. Faithfull masses is more of a gunline and that really takes a lot of the RFP problems out. I can also confirm zealots as a recursion tarpit with him are amazing, if you play it right you can normally double dip on around 5 or 6 of them with the minifeat.
I was actually pretty successful with him in early MK3. It wasn't until people started taking RFP to deal with Ghost fleet and Cygnar really got into the E-Leap phase that I was watching him just do nothing every game.
Another thing people don't expect is Dust to Dust assasinations. If your opponent has killed most of your army you are normally on around 20+ souls and I have literally spritbombed the crap out of casters with that. With a hierophant he threats 19"-22" (apparate-speed5-range 10"-+2" from hierophant- Optional plus 3" for charge) I always take a gaurdian in my BG just to threat that.
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Post by Swampmist on Sept 7, 2017 15:02:55 GMT
interesting thing on the spiritbomb into Denny1:
if you bring 2 revengers, one can be with your front line and the other stands 8" back. If Denny feats on the first one, the second can run up to arc past stealth. If she feats on the second, she's in walk and pop range with the front revenger.
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Sept 7, 2017 16:21:36 GMT
Played a game with Testament last night under exemplar theme (into a cryx dark host list (new player so not current meta version)). Loved it. Two revengers, devout, three units of KE + UA and two units of K- errants +UA, errant solo, two wracks. The recursion is real. my opponent thought I was out cryxing him. We spent a decent amount of time seeing who was closest to get souls. The lore aspect of Testament trying to save as many souls as possible was fun.
I did end up losing because I went for an assassination through my arc node with 13+ focus and missed 4 boosted spells... the two that hit took off my opponents only two focus... The safe move would have been to just bring back six exemplar.
If testament makes exemplar models better (and becomes a thing), will that lessen our chances of getting some good buffs come Exemplar CID time?
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Post by Swampmist on Sept 7, 2017 16:39:07 GMT
it may lessen the chance of errant buffs; though I think we can still jigger a ua buff. Testament does nothing for the medium basers though, so bastion buff train is still running
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Sept 7, 2017 17:50:05 GMT
We spent a decent amount of time seeing who was closest to get souls. The lore aspect of Testament trying to save as many souls as possible was fun. Don't forget that your opponent can't get souls from your friendly Protcetorate models dying within 10" of Testament (oh, why isn't it just CTRL for consistency?), regardless of who is the closest!
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Sept 7, 2017 18:20:25 GMT
We spent a decent amount of time seeing who was closest to get souls. The lore aspect of Testament trying to save as many souls as possible was fun. Don't forget that your opponent can't get souls from your friendly Protcetorate models dying within 10" of Testament (oh, why isn't it just CTRL for consistency?), regardless of who is the closest! I had forgot that once. But it was more a dance trying to be the closest without getting into danger (pre-combat).
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Post by regabond on Sept 8, 2017 16:48:13 GMT
I've only had 1 game with Testament in mk3 with KE and TFG and he far exceeded my expectations. I enjoyed him a lot in mk2 and was worried that the changes to his revive would hurt him too much. Fortunately, he actually got a lot more interesting to play with a valid spell assassination always on the table, easier time of collecting souls, and cheaper revives (which has changed to attrition instead of surprise killing).
A list I'd really like to try out with him involves 60ish Temple flameguard in theme. Breaking armor would be tough, but the sheer amount of reviving bodies will drain the opponent's will to fight. On any given turn, Testament could end up with 20-30 focus and nuke the caster or a unit off the frontline. If he is able to reach a colossal in melee with that amount of focus, its as good as dead.
The new theme will also get silly with 3 units of zealots as they can revive themselves for free once or Testament can revive the 1 or 2 zealots which are killed. Killing only 1 or 2 from a unit of zealots at a time is a sneaky way for the opponent to force a bad Greater Destiny mini-feat.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Sept 8, 2017 17:26:46 GMT
Played a game with Testament last night under exemplar theme (into a cryx dark host list (new player so not current meta version)). Loved it. Two revengers, devout, three units of KE + UA and two units of K- errants +UA, errant solo, two wracks. The recursion is real. my opponent thought I was out cryxing him. We spent a decent amount of time seeing who was closest to get souls. The lore aspect of Testament trying to save as many souls as possible was fun. I did end up losing because I went for an assassination through my arc node with 13+ focus and missed 4 boosted spells... the two that hit took off my opponents only two focus... The safe move would have been to just bring back six exemplar. If testament makes exemplar models better (and becomes a thing), will that lessen our chances of getting some good buffs come Exemplar CID time? testament denies opposing soul collection, full stop.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Sept 9, 2017 8:54:45 GMT
What folks are saying in this thread about the list's resiliency is accurate. Most of the things in the game that deny souls or RFP are mitigated by self-sac -- yes, you still don't get the souls, but usually you deny the RFP and whatever other effect they were trying for. Recursion even without souls is powerful, especially in SR2017. Testament himself usually hides behind LoS blocking terrain with a devout protecting him and camps as much as he needs to against casters like Denny. Having access to late game recursion and deep digging RFP makes him an ideal candidate against Fleet. Blackbanes an issue? Assault magical crossbows x22. Wraith Engine? How about some Knights with magical greatswords. They killed 30% of your army in a turn? Hope they're safe from a Dust to Dust assassination. It's a great list, and it's withstood significant testing. Credit where it's due, John DeMaris actually turned us on to this list, and all Josh and I did was test and tweak. If I see it personally at the WTC, I suspect that's a round I'll lose. Would having a Sanctifier help? they basically remove his feat and just don't die at range to menoth what with the fire immunity.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 9, 2017 13:22:15 GMT
it may lessen the chance of errant buffs; though I think we can still jigger a ua buff. Testament does nothing for the medium basers though, so bastion buff train is still running I think all errants need is pathfinder on the UA honestly. Surprisingly I use Cinerators as a screen for the Knights Exemplar I don't own a second errant boat but I do own 2 of every knight unit (except for Vengers) I actually have had marginal success with them for Los blocking and pinning down my opponent till the actual hard hitting units arrive. They are still garbage. Comparing them to Knights E is a joke that makes me cry a little but I have to stick with what I own ya know?
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Post by timtheenchanter on Sept 11, 2017 16:31:36 GMT
What folks are saying in this thread about the list's resiliency is accurate. Most of the things in the game that deny souls or RFP are mitigated by self-sac -- yes, you still don't get the souls, but usually you deny the RFP and whatever other effect they were trying for. Recursion even without souls is powerful, especially in SR2017. Testament himself usually hides behind LoS blocking terrain with a devout protecting him and camps as much as he needs to against casters like Denny. Having access to late game recursion and deep digging RFP makes him an ideal candidate against Fleet. Blackbanes an issue? Assault magical crossbows x22. Wraith Engine? How about some Knights with magical greatswords. They killed 30% of your army in a turn? Hope they're safe from a Dust to Dust assassination. It's a great list, and it's withstood significant testing. Credit where it's due, John DeMaris actually turned us on to this list, and all Josh and I did was test and tweak. If I see it personally at the WTC, I suspect that's a round I'll lose. Would having a Sanctifier help? they basically remove his feat and just don't die at range to menoth what with the fire immunity. Too point intense for my tastes. The list thrives on having no elements that ARM cracking tools can really address well.
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