draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Sept 5, 2017 18:35:25 GMT
I've seen/heard/read rumors and questions about the Testament being a potential powerhouse with the Exemplar Theme... so I want to discuss it here.What jacks should we take with this guy? I see a list (posted from Capital city) with a Devout and two Revengers. Why Revengers, do they interact well with "raise the dead"? (how does raise the dead work with an archnode?)
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 5, 2017 18:47:03 GMT
Arc nodes would only be able to make use of Dust to Dust. Raise the dead is ctrl so there's no arcing possible.
I do want to play Testament. Like it hurts he's still in the mail. But I want to play him in the CiD Faithful masses. Zealots are a lot of cheap bodies that will fall, granting him a soul, then without any resource cost the UA brings back the unit. It would just generate a huge stack of focus out of nothing. Then use raise the dead to keep bringing back Idrians.
I can see him working with the Exemplars since he gets so much value out of them. Vengers would be the best "bang for your buck" but 2 have to die for 1 to come back (unless you take a heirophant which i don't think is allowed in theme). Just the fact you get to bring weapon masters back to the field after they died and trigger battle driven is pretty fantastic. Cloak of ash is also a good buff into living infantry/beast when you have more models to spread out the effect. Blessed weapons also helps since he has no warjack damage buff.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 5, 2017 19:36:51 GMT
I have been playing him for a while now and I have found him to be absolutely awesome....unless your opponent can do one of the following:
prevent him from gaining souls prevent him for reviving models negate his feat in some way (magic weapons for free strikes, removing incorp etc.)
The issue with the current meta is that many factions have all 3 of those options now thanks to the rise of ghost fleet and cryx in general.
He is sadly just put out of the current meta. I still have a blast with him though!
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Sept 5, 2017 19:43:01 GMT
I have been playing him for a while now and I have found him to be absolutely awesome....unless your opponent can do one of the following: prevent him from gaining souls prevent him for reviving models negate his feat in some way (magic weapons for free strikes, removing incorp etc.) The issue with the current meta is that many factions have all 3 of those options now thanks to the rise of ghost fleet and cryx in general. He is sadly just put out of the current meta. I still have a blast with him though! I do not want to argue with experience but I thought I heard he was a counter to Ghost fleet...
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Sept 5, 2017 20:03:32 GMT
I think if he was allowed to collect souls from friendly models destroyed in his CTRL area he would see a lot more play.
It's surprising how many things kill friendly models that are not actually considered an attack (E-Leaps, feat damage etc...) At least that's one of the biggest things keeping me from dropping him on the table
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 5, 2017 20:08:04 GMT
I think if he was allowed to collect souls from friendly models destroyed in his CTRL area he would see a lot more play. It's surprising how many things kill friendly models that are not actually considered an attack (E-Leaps, feat damage etc...) At least that's one of the biggest things keeping me from dropping him on the table Testament only collects souls from friendly faction models (Like Zaal for skorne)
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Sept 5, 2017 20:23:15 GMT
^ yes, I forgot to type the "Faction" part
The main point was I think his soul collection should be like the regular Reclaimers or Gravus, i.e. no restriction on how the model died, he should get the soul if it died.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 5, 2017 20:56:32 GMT
I have been playing him for a while now and I have found him to be absolutely awesome....unless your opponent can do one of the following: prevent him from gaining souls prevent him for reviving models negate his feat in some way (magic weapons for free strikes, removing incorp etc.) The issue with the current meta is that many factions have all 3 of those options now thanks to the rise of ghost fleet and cryx in general. He is sadly just put out of the current meta. I still have a blast with him though! I do not want to argue with experience but I thought I heard he was a counter to Ghost fleet... Not exactly sure how. He is pretty susceptible to the typical ghost fleet deny 1 assassination. I'm not saying its an auto lose, but I would not consider him a counter
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Post by Swampmist on Sept 5, 2017 22:18:18 GMT
because he's the only caster in the game that out attritions her, denies the hellslinger souls, and his list can actually jam hard enough to not get him shot? timtheenchanter can say more, but he's done the work and it looks like Testament might be the new HR on the competitive scene.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 5, 2017 22:28:08 GMT
because he's the only caster in the game that out attritions her, denies the hellslinger souls, and his list can actually jam hard enough to not get him shot? timtheenchanter can say more, but he's done the work and it looks like Testament might be the new HR on the competitive scene. I guess my meta has more rfp, e-leaps, and other non attacks that get around his toolkit than other peoples. If Tim has high hopes that typically means that he is stronger than anyone has been able to pull off. I will admit when I play him into someone who can't deny him souls and recursion, I typically just grind them into a pulp. I don't doubt he can attrition her, I just really worry about getting assassinated easily by her and ghost shots everywhere. Darn it Swampmist you are going to get me on a Testament binge again....
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Post by Swampmist on Sept 5, 2017 22:31:34 GMT
If Vindictus wasn't my favorite caster I'd be right there with ya buddy
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d3z
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by d3z on Sept 6, 2017 1:15:24 GMT
I don't doubt he can attrition her, I just really worry about getting assassinated easily by her and ghost shots everywhere. I think the errants are key to preventing that. Most of the lists that I'm seeing so far are running 2 units with CAs. Because there are 22 magical crossbows that threaten into your opponent's AD without moving, your opponent is playing around your threat ranges from turn 1, regardless of who is going first. The aim would be to combine that with the long-reaching RFP from dust to dust and remove anything that comes close to Testament (and by close, I mean 20 inches). Regarding your thoughts on e-leaps: the more I play exemplar models into Cygnar, the less nervous I get about it. My fear of e-leaps was grounded in my 'Idrians are in every list' phase. The impact of the soul collection loss is tied to the rate that exemplar actually due to those kinds of damage, which at ARM 16/17 is way less than I thought.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 6, 2017 1:37:06 GMT
I don't doubt he can attrition her, I just really worry about getting assassinated easily by her and ghost shots everywhere. I think the errants are key to preventing that. Most of the lists that I'm seeing so far are running 2 units with CAs. Because there are 22 magical crossbows that threaten into your opponent's AD without moving, your opponent is playing around your threat ranges from turn 1, regardless of who is going first. The aim would be to combine that with the long-reaching RFP from dust to dust and remove anything that comes close to Testament (and by close, I mean 20 inches). Regarding your thoughts on e-leaps: the more I play exemplar models into Cygnar, the less nervous I get about it. My fear of e-leaps was grounded in my 'Idrians are in every list' phase. The impact of the soul collection loss is tied to the rate that exemplar actually due to those kinds of damage, which at ARM 16/17 is way less than I thought. That is a pretty good point, Arm 16+ is pretty resistance to pow 10's I a not sold on the double errant boat yet but I probably should try and pick up a second unit before people start raising their value on ebay
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Sept 6, 2017 11:01:13 GMT
I think the errants are key to preventing that. Most of the lists that I'm seeing so far are running 2 units with CAs. Because there are 22 magical crossbows that threaten into your opponent's AD without moving, your opponent is playing around your threat ranges from turn 1, regardless of who is going first. The aim would be to combine that with the long-reaching RFP from dust to dust and remove anything that comes close to Testament (and by close, I mean 20 inches). Regarding your thoughts on e-leaps: the more I play exemplar models into Cygnar, the less nervous I get about it. My fear of e-leaps was grounded in my 'Idrians are in every list' phase. The impact of the soul collection loss is tied to the rate that exemplar actually due to those kinds of damage, which at ARM 16/17 is way less than I thought. That is a pretty good point, Arm 16+ is pretty resistance to pow 10's I a not sold on the double errant boat yet but I probably should try and pick up a second unit before people start raising their value on ebay I was thinking the same thing but then realized I got a box with a lot I bought a while ago... But I hate building them...
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Post by timtheenchanter on Sept 7, 2017 0:58:15 GMT
What folks are saying in this thread about the list's resiliency is accurate. Most of the things in the game that deny souls or RFP are mitigated by self-sac -- yes, you still don't get the souls, but usually you deny the RFP and whatever other effect they were trying for. Recursion even without souls is powerful, especially in SR2017. Testament himself usually hides behind LoS blocking terrain with a devout protecting him and camps as much as he needs to against casters like Denny. Having access to late game recursion and deep digging RFP makes him an ideal candidate against Fleet.
Blackbanes an issue? Assault magical crossbows x22.
Wraith Engine? How about some Knights with magical greatswords.
They killed 30% of your army in a turn? Hope they're safe from a Dust to Dust assassination.
It's a great list, and it's withstood significant testing. Credit where it's due, John DeMaris actually turned us on to this list, and all Josh and I did was test and tweak. If I see it personally at the WTC, I suspect that's a round I'll lose.
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