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Post by lyrael on Sept 5, 2017 16:41:06 GMT
Well, I'd lay money on there being a Dawnguard theme. I think this one was already confirmed on twitter (Will Shick said he was working on it, I think).
The fluff in the MK3 Ret command book could justify a standalone Nyss theme, as a lot of the Nyss refugees are still clinging to the old ways and want to be left alone and keep to their own shards (now in Ios). A Nyss standalone theme could give them maximum design room to cover things that play very differently to the rest of the Retribution.
Given the number of House Vyre stuff, I could totally see there being a House Vyre theme list that centers around their jacks and support pieces/units. Maybe even add in some other more combined arms type units/solos, to have a different style of jack heavy than Forges of War, which I tend to see mostly as all of the jacks, one Artificer, and then Mechanik solos.
That's my hope, anyways.
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bluebeard
Junior Strategist
crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women
Posts: 293
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Post by bluebeard on Sept 5, 2017 16:56:29 GMT
Don't forget about the Vyre Electromancers. That would be a great anti-warmachine theme, but not so great agains beasts.
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Sept 5, 2017 17:17:19 GMT
I think a Vyre theme would be great somewhere down the line when it coincides with new releases but I can't imagine it would be a good release this month. Vyre has a really small selection of models so it would have to be a jack theme, which means we'd probably be looking at a "For every 25 points of Warjacks (and maybe battle engines) get one free solo" which would only be Arcanists. Then it would just be a question of whether the abilities it hands out to jacks or Electromancers are better than Shield Guard + Free Upkeeps + access to more arcanists. Odds are it just ends up either replacing or being overshadowed by Forges.
Maybe it could work, I just don't think it would and I'd rather see it merged with Nyss. There's enough thematic ties with Ossyan being Nyssor's savior and Ghyrrshyld being Scyrah's champion (whether the Nyss love him or not) and it would give the list more flexibility. Plus it removes the need for a third Nyss theme, which shares many of the problems the Vyre-only theme would have.
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Sept 5, 2017 19:15:38 GMT
I feel like each faction will be getting a few more general themes like was promised so that every model has a place somewhere. That would mean a Dawnguard theme as well as some from of Nyss/Vyre theme possible separate and possibly together but after that who knows. I would honestly like to see them take advantage of the tags on war casters with new themes or perhaps go back and add bonuses accordingly. Like and additional buff for shadows if your war caster also has the 'Mage Hunter' Tag or a separate mage hunter theme that restricts casters as well as units/solos.
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Post by lyrael on Sept 6, 2017 4:07:23 GMT
Personally, no matter how many themes they end up with, I hope they do one thing.
Figure out which 3 - 4 casters they want running each theme. Then, rework those casters as needed so that they run the theme force well, and that they do something the theme force likes.
Because we have casters like Shade4, Ravyn, and Thyron that are just kind of messes. Then there's someone like Vyros1, who seems to work best out of theme (Forges of War, but really wants to run a unit like the infiltrators).
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 6, 2017 7:01:33 GMT
They hate him, hes the bad kid that went off and dealt drugs and robbed some people, got convicted and did some hard time in prison. But now hes out and Mom has said hes back in the family and is still in the will so you kids play nice. Hahaha, I love the analogy. Also keep in mind that Ghyrrshyld and Ossyan are casters from House Vyre. Add in the new light releases coming up,and the Nyss-Vyre theme doesn't seem so far fetched. Off topic question; Who is considered, fluff wise, the head of Vyre? Plus the big issue is, vyre has plenty of jacks, but only 1 unit, Nyss only have two units, one of which is a character unit, and two solos. It would take a massive new model dump to make either one of those a solo theme but if the nyss supplement houseguard units, and use vyre warjacks, you've got enough together that they'd only need to add like maybe some nyss light cav. A vyre list that was just based around their jacks and some support units seems like itd tread too close to forges of war TBH
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Post by psycomonky on Sept 6, 2017 19:31:00 GMT
I really feel that houseguard should be allowed in any theme outside of mage hunters/possibly nyss from a thematic standpoint. The fluf of ret is the casters gathering the forces of their house and going to war. Shouldn't that mean houseguard for all?
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 7, 2017 7:25:45 GMT
Probably not dawnguard either, but yeah
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Sept 7, 2017 13:34:29 GMT
Some of the sub factions (Nyss/Vyre) I feel are not fleshed out enough to have stand alone theme forces at this current time but like they did with Trencher theme I'm excited to see what new Nyss models or Vyre models they might release.
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Post by lyrael on Sept 7, 2017 17:10:14 GMT
Sub factions not being fleshed out enough to have stand alone theme forces isn't really a bad thing. Given that Retribution is one of (if not the) newest main faction, its kind of to be expected.
I think we all know a Dawnguard theme force is coming, and I really do hope they do two separate Nyss and Vyre theme forces. If they have to release a bunch more models to support them, I'm entirely ok with that. They've left release parity behind entirely, and are now in the mode of 'we will release what the theme force needs'.
For the Nyss especially, that would give them a lot of room to do something different than the other stuff in Ret (which is fun). And since the Nyss have more experience with beasts and the like, they would have room to give some stuff that is good into Hordes, because most of the stuff in Ret right now feels very geared to be anti-Warmachine.
I guess I'm just pulling for that especially because they're moving toward theme forces, and I'd much rather individual themes, support pieces, and casters for what the stuff in that theme wants to do and do it well, than a few mish-mash themes and pieces which are all over the place and don't really do anything all that effectively (and whose main benefit is 'free stuff').
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 7, 2017 22:50:52 GMT
Releasing a bunch of new models isn't out of the question, but Id expect mid/late 2018 at the earliest, they've already spoiled 2 khador themes and a bunch of new models, and i guess cryx has had a bunch of ogryn or something?
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Post by Tarnium on Sept 13, 2017 14:19:36 GMT
Releasing a bunch of new models isn't out of the question, but Id expect mid/late 2018 at the earliest, they've already spoiled 2 khador themes and a bunch of new models, and i guess cryx has had a bunch of ogryn or something? It was Legion Blighted Ogruns.
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Sept 13, 2017 14:48:02 GMT
I don't think there's any question that they plan to release more Vyre and Nyss models later, the question is what we'll be getting this month for theme forces. We know two things: 1) They want to get every model into a theme force by the end of the year. 2) They aren't doing new models for the theme forces that are dropping this month.
So the question isn't "What themes could they make with more models" it's "What themes can they make with the models we currently have that would be viable and fun".
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Sept 13, 2017 15:51:24 GMT
I don't think there's any question that they plan to release more Vyre and Nyss models later, the question is what we'll be getting this month for theme forces. We know two things: 1) They want to get every model into a theme force by the end of the year. 2) They aren't doing new models for the theme forces that are dropping this month. So the question isn't "What themes could they make with more models" it's "What themes can they make with the models we currently have that would be viable and fun". This is the question that I am asking myself, will they release themes that are basically useless like a pure vyre or pure nyss theme, operating under the assumption that down the road they will be getting more models or will they release a more combined themes with a more exclusive Nyss or Vyre theme coming out with the models themselves.
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Post by Tarnium on Sept 13, 2017 16:41:17 GMT
I hope they release something similar to irregulars. I would love to play weird janky solo spam.
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