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Post by sirk on Aug 25, 2017 12:56:29 GMT
This is a list I was having fun with recently. With last CiD I just added a wight with the spare points from wardens.
Krueger the Stormlord - WB: +27
- Woldwarden - PC: 14 - Woldwarden - PC: 14 - Woldwyrd - PC: 9 - Woldwyrd - PC: 9 - Woldwight - PC: 5
Celestial Fulcrum - PC: 19 Celestial Fulcrum - PC: 19
Blackclad Stoneshaper - PC: 0 Blackclad Stoneshaper - PC: 0 Gallows Grove - PC: 0
Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5 Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5 Shifting Stones - Leader & 2 Grunts: 3
Mostly tries to play scenario by means of feat and multiple Tk, can go attrition against all but armor screw, usual decent menace of casterkill again for TK. Quite fun, quite effective, expecially goind first (like almost many lists now).
I tried wayfarer as 3rd free card, but wardens are usually too busy with TK and animus to be effective punching machines.
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Post by Forsaken on Aug 25, 2017 13:11:43 GMT
Oooh! A whopping 8 points of free models. It seems like a fine list but also outlines well a glaring Circle theme issue.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 25, 2017 13:23:25 GMT
Oooh! A whopping 8 points of free models. It seems like a fine list but also outlines well a glaring Circle theme issue. I don't think the issue is with cirlce theme...its with the themes that can abuse the free model system really easily. *cough* cygnar, khador, Legion *cough*
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Post by sirk on Aug 25, 2017 13:28:36 GMT
Ehehe. True ^^.
When I go first, this is usually my strategy: - everything runs - Krueger cast TK forward on both engines, windstorm and moves inside stones - stones teleport krueger behind LOS blocking element as close as possible to center (we usually have one there since we use cluster) Second turn: - shot with everything - one warden TK Krueger 2" forward (he's around center of table now) - still more TK, windstorm then Feat and move him back (possibly behind wardens' forest if needed).
Of course there are lists where you can't follow this plan because it's too dangerous, but most of the times you can, and it's a nice problem to solve for the opponent on his second turn since he's usually outside almost every area with reduced spd.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 25, 2017 13:37:20 GMT
Oooh! A whopping 8 points of free models. It seems like a fine list but also outlines well a glaring Circle theme issue.
We need a CI entry with max hyperbole and a model whose description is something like this:
Brawsome is intended to be a cross between a Tharn Warrior and a Druid, he was raised inside the Circle hierarchy by a Tharn Nanny and thus must represent the concepts of Melee Warfare and Magical Might. The ability to swiftly reach his enemies, slaughter them and move away to the next fight is integral to his model as well as a ridicullous point cost is intended to keep him out of non-theme forces.
Brawsome Circle of Orboros Tharn Druid Solo
SPD: 6 Str 7 MAT 8 RAT - DEF 14 ARM 15 CMD 8
Tharn Voulge: 2" POW 6 P+S 13 Thresher
Battle Wizard Heart Taker Pathfinder Prowl Tough
Magical Ability 7 Phase Jump Hunter's Mark Summon Vortex Wind Strike
Opps, missed my melee attack: Once per turn Brawesome can spend a corpse token to cast a spell. Non-Vegan: While Brawsome has a corpse token he gains +2 ST and Tree Walker.
Cost: <Don't bother he will be taken for free>
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Post by Forsaken on Aug 27, 2017 6:16:30 GMT
I like Brawsome. He seems like a swell guy. Are you sure he hasn't been captured by Pendrake and forced to work for Cygnar though?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 27, 2017 6:57:16 GMT
Wait so the Stoneshaper becomes better, but then still retains a much lower points cost of 3. Circle players then proceed to complain about free points.
So is the solution to make all the Solos Cheaper? I wouldn't mind an Iron Fang Kovnik for 2 points.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 27, 2017 7:56:43 GMT
Wait so the Stoneshaper becomes better, but then still retains a much lower points cost of 3. Circle players then proceed to complain about free points. So is the solution to make all the Solos Cheaper? I wouldn't mind an Iron Fang Kovnik for 2 points. The complaint is that some themes (including Khador) can fairly easily get 15+ points of free models, but Circle has a much lower threshold because our most expensive solos are either not allowed as free options (Why I can't take Morraig for free in Wild Hunt, but CAN take the Pain Knight for free in Defenders of Ios is beyond me) or simply nonexistent, such that the most expensive 'free models' we can get are 4 points in many themes. Combine that with awkward free stuff math that makes it difficult to max out free models in many themes (it's nearly impossible in secret masters, due to many of the benefits being tied to minions models, which don't count towards free points, and maxing out free points in Bones means you're not taking shifting stones.) When some themes max out at 25 points of free stuff (Irregulars) and others max out at 12 points (or more realistically, 8, as in secret masters) there's some imbalance going on. Also, are you complaining that Stone Keepers aren't expensive ENOUGH? Might want to have a word with Retribution, I hear their version of concentrated power/empower solo only costs TWO points.
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Post by Forsaken on Aug 27, 2017 13:07:05 GMT
Furthermore, many of our "free options" are so limited that taking them is nearly pointless. For example: In our construct warbeast only theme one of our 4 options is a druid wilder who is mostly designed to help with living warbeasts. By the way, she can't be taken in any theme list that uses living beasts.
One of my personal puzzlers is that in our tharn theme the Lord of the Feast, a 6 point small base solo that's essentially a tharn hero, can't be taken free and doesn't count towards the models that can be free because he's not tharn. Also, he doesn't count towards models that get a corpse token, even though he desperately wants a corpse token. Mind you a lot of players think he's not worth taking even if he was free.
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Post by Forsaken on Aug 27, 2017 13:39:01 GMT
Wait so the Stoneshaper becomes better, but then still retains a much lower points cost of 3. Circle players then proceed to complain about free points. So is the solution to make all the Solos Cheaper? I wouldn't mind an Iron Fang Kovnik for 2 points. I wouldn't say the Stoneshaper became better so much as he gained the application to make wolds better. I think if they lost their magic spray it would be fine because they are pretty much a utility piece, not that different from a mechanik. Maybe 3 points is too cheap for them, that's for CID to determine, but bear in mind they can only do one of the 4 * actions in a turn and I don't see many support pieces costing 3+ points each without being significantly better then the Stoneshaper. I'm looking at you Greylord Forgeseer, Arlan Strangeways, and Paingiver Beasthandlers.
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Post by whiskeydave on Aug 27, 2017 17:54:54 GMT
another one bites the dust...
"Hi guys, this is a list I have been enjoying and now with proposed CID changes, it gets more stuff. I really like it..."
"murmur-murmur... circle themes suck... we want to talk about that instead, here and EVERYWHERE... murmur!"
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 28, 2017 0:27:08 GMT
another one bites the dust... "Hi guys, this is a list I have been enjoying and now with proposed CID changes, it gets more stuff. I really like it..." "murmur-murmur... circle themes suck... we want to talk about that instead, here and EVERYWHERE... murmur!" What factions do you play? Making wolds finally worthwhile is something that should have been done at the beginning of MK3. We finally get to use them without playing handicapped. Wild hunt is a pretty bad theme list. There are some assasination builds, and grayle but it has no staying power and that's bad in SR2017 Tharn Theme needs better Tharn but some people get it to work in really specific lists and pairings. Bones is going to be our best theme when CiD drops. The secret masters hinted Theme is absolute trash. I'm hoping CiD fixes that. We have just as much a right to complain as other factions.
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Post by whiskeydave on Aug 28, 2017 1:50:52 GMT
another one bites the dust... "Hi guys, this is a list I have been enjoying and now with proposed CID changes, it gets more stuff. I really like it..." "murmur-murmur... circle themes suck... we want to talk about that instead, here and EVERYWHERE... murmur!" What factions do you play? ... Circle and CoC. Not sure how that relates to the kruegar2 bones theme that OP brought up to discuss. It sort of feels like you are replying to my post making of fun of themeforce-complaints taking over the thread by complaining about themeforces. I hope you understand why that looks more than a little ironic to me.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 28, 2017 2:17:34 GMT
What factions do you play? ... Circle and CoC. Not sure how that relates to the kruegar2 bones theme that OP brought up to discuss. It sort of feels like you are replying to my post making of fun of themeforce-complaints taking over the thread by complaining about themeforces. I hope you understand why that looks more than a little ironic to me. Because I feel like we have a right to complain about our current themes other than the in CiD bones The factions was more out of curiosity than anything else.
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Post by whiskeydave on Aug 28, 2017 2:43:55 GMT
Circle and CoC. Not sure how that relates to the kruegar2 bones theme that OP brought up to discuss. It sort of feels like you are replying to my post making of fun of themeforce-complaints taking over the thread by complaining about themeforces. I hope you understand why that looks more than a little ironic to me. Because I feel like we have a right to complain about our current themes other than the in CiD bones The factions was more out of curiosity than anything else. I would agree that you should be able to discuss what you do and do not like about the game. These forums are to discuss the game, after all. I am just unclear as to why so many threads must be converted into that conversation regardless of title and OP content. Some folks don't like theme forces. Understood. I probably wouldn't click on that thread title as there would be nothing in it that I have not had to hear... repeatedly... for months.
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