Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Aug 25, 2017 19:08:48 GMT
I think this theme goes in two potential directions. Either you try to get the most free points possible, in which case you run some sort of gun line. Two idrians, two min deliverers, min choir, two free sunbursts, free Vilmon, pSevy, Revelator, 1 vassal, 1 deliverer arms master. Or you go for a melee jack list with Among and just enough infantry to process hand of vengeance. Yeah this is what I really like about the theme, there's no "obvious" list, and thus, no obvious counter. I even like how Hand of Vengeance procs on Remove from Play which is a big boost for us considering the main counter to Ghost Fleet is RFP. I still find it a bit puzzling that PP keeps releasing themes where the biggest bonuses for themes are for those elements that are not part of the theme (i.e. Hand of Vengeance) but I'll still take a good theme where I can. As an aside, with regard to Deliverers, the more I've thought about it, the more I like the change. I'm still not convinced it gets them where they need to be, but it does at least give me pause to consider them. If nothing else, you can potentially use them to finish off a jack when the jack you send in comes up just short (assuming you are facing a jack list) to say nothing of their continued usability against infantry. That combo might just be enough to consider them in lieu of redeemers/sunburst. Can't CRA into engage except vs colossals. Still, much of what I said in my older deliverer dojo still appears to hold true, they're just better at it. I have games tonight, I can't wait.
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Post by gargs454 on Aug 25, 2017 19:10:43 GMT
Well, poop. You are right though, there still may be some use to them. Not completely sold yet, but definitely worth looking into.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Aug 25, 2017 19:11:55 GMT
If nothing else, you can potentially use them to finish off a jack when the jack you send in comes up just short ( With RAT1 (against target in melee), POW 10 (against ARM 17+)? You remember you can't Combine Ranged Attack into melee? Unless you meant shooting with your jacks not sending them into melee. EDIT: too slow. Btw, CRA into melee is one of those 1000 things I think about when people say WM&H basic rules are very easy and simple and only model rules create complication
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Post by greytemplar on Aug 25, 2017 20:09:49 GMT
2 charging Dervishes under HoV, Synergy, and Battle kill a Mountain King under stone on average dice. Just happened in the game I had.
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Post by Demeritus on Aug 25, 2017 20:59:49 GMT
2 charging Dervishes under HoV, Synergy, and Battle kill a Mountain King under stone on average dice. Just happened in the game I had. So if my math is correct both would have been p+s 20?
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Aug 25, 2017 23:21:11 GMT
2 charging Dervishes under HoV, Synergy, and Battle kill a Mountain King under stone on average dice. Just happened in the game I had. So if my math is correct both would have been p+s 20? More if they're marshalled by Reclaimers.
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Post by greytemplar on Aug 25, 2017 23:47:45 GMT
Yup. P+S20.
I think the theme should be changed to only give 2 jacks Hand of Vengeance for each unit. Giving it out for free and unlimited is a little nuts. You should have to take a few units to get that benefit.
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Aug 26, 2017 0:04:46 GMT
So if my math is correct both would have been p+s 20? More if they're marshalled by Reclaimers. That would exclude them from synergy if I'm not mistaken.
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Post by greytemplar on Aug 26, 2017 0:11:27 GMT
It would indeed. And no focus either.
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Post by W0lfBane on Aug 26, 2017 1:02:05 GMT
Yup. P+S20. I think the theme should be changed to only give 2 jacks Hand of Vengeance for each unit. Giving it out for free and unlimited is a little nuts. You should have to take a few units to get that benefit. Well you have top take at least one. Choir must airways be present
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Post by greytemplar on Aug 26, 2017 1:04:49 GMT
Yeah, but this is an infantry theme so it would make sense to require some actual infantry units.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Aug 26, 2017 2:27:51 GMT
More if they're marshalled by Reclaimers. That would exclude them from synergy if I'm not mistaken. Derp!
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Aug 26, 2017 8:56:34 GMT
Yeah, but this is an infantry theme so it would make sense to require some actual infantry units. Free stuff comes from including units and you need warrior models to trigger righteous vengeance. Sounds like you require some actual units at least.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 26, 2017 13:26:40 GMT
Yeah, but this is an infantry theme so it would make sense to require some actual infantry units. Free stuff comes from including units and you need warrior models to trigger righteous vengeance. Sounds like you require some actual units at least. I think the issue is, Amon already wanted a screen and didn't really care about the creators might benefits. So now he gets to rub a really good screen and benefit from it by hitting redoculoysly hard thanks to HoV
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Post by WantonRanger on Aug 26, 2017 15:27:15 GMT
Free stuff comes from including units and you need warrior models to trigger righteous vengeance. Sounds like you require some actual units at least. I think the issue is, Amon already wanted a screen and didn't really care about the creators might benefits. So now he gets to rub a really good screen and benefit from it by hitting redoculoysly hard thanks to HoV Is it an issue? I'm sure CID feedback is incoming
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