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Post by BarbeChenue on Aug 19, 2017 22:50:58 GMT
Greetings Komrades, I'm a Khador player, and I've been collecting quite a few mercenary and minion models over time. The Irregulars Theme force has ignited a spark of considerable interest, mostly because the lists people were toying with seemed to contain models I already own: - Kayazy Assassin Underboss
- Kayazy Assassins
- Kayazy Eliminators x2
- Tactical Arcanist Corps
- Cylena & Nyss Hunters
- Greygore Boomhowler & Co.
- Ogrun Bokur x2
- Eiryss 1
- Eiryss 2
- Gorman di Wulfe
- Harlan Versh
- Madelyn Corbeau
- Ragman
- Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor
- Kell Bailoch
- Lady Aiyana & Master Holt
- Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker
I'd like to gather ideas of different competitive lists containing models I already own, mostly, and of course additions. I don't own any merc warcaster yet, and I'd like to know which ones are better positioned to lead the Irregulars into battle (I don't much care about 'jack marshall or not). I've seen Caine 3 and Magnus 2 mentioned more than a few times... Also, it seems the Renegade and Mangler warjacks are quite popular. Are they the Juggernauts or the faction? The Mangler has Thresher and good Focus management tools. The Renegade is Magnus-only I reckon, but that POW 16, AoE 4, RAT 6 once-per-game attack for only 10 pts is very sweet indeed. What are your ideas? |
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Lahn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 100
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Post by Lahn on Aug 20, 2017 13:17:20 GMT
The Bokur doesn't appear to be in the theme, which doesn't matter.
Caine3 is garbage in Mercs alas, alongside Ashlynn, Constance and the Cephalyx casters as the exceptions any Merc caster can slot into a playable form of Irregulars, assuming it is as spoiled without changes.
Problem with the Renegade is a Nomad is a heavy warjack and in the same point bracket. Double Renegade only kills people once, then they wise up to it.
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Post by mikethefish on Aug 21, 2017 11:18:23 GMT
The Bokur doesn't appear to be in the theme, which doesn't matter. Caine3 is garbage in Mercs alas, alongside Ashlynn, Constance and the Cephalyx casters as the exceptions any Merc caster can slot into a playable form of Irregulars, assuming it is as spoiled without changes. Problem with the Renegade is a Nomad is a heavy warjack and in the same point bracket. Double Renegade only kills people once, then they wise up to it. Indeed. The only reason why Renegades are popular are because of holdover popularity from previous editions (back when it seriously kicked ass), and also because it's our only true arc node. It's absolutely not worth 11 points, especially when compared to a Nomad. You MIGHT take one with Magnus2, if you are really concerned about landing Calamity somewhere. Even then, it's value is questionable. EDIT - I forgot to mention this, but the Nomad is the Juggernaut of the faction, rather than the Mangler. I personally like the Mangler, but I wouldn't recommend getting more than one, where I would recommend getting 2-3 Nomads. I'll try and come up with a more substantive recommendation when I get more time |
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Post by mikethefish on Aug 21, 2017 12:46:18 GMT
So first, you have to decide if you are going Rhulic or Human.
RHULIC IRREGULARS:
The sad fact is that at least 2 out of 3 of Rhulic casters play better in Irregulars than they do in their own Rhulic Theme (Hammer Strike). Both Gorten and Durgen have spells and abilities that work FAR better on "normal" Merc options than they do on any Rhulic units or Solos. Both Gorten and Durgen love Kayazy of all flavors, and frequently they like the Nyss as well. Additionally they both realy enjoy playing with the Merc "power solos", of which you seem to own most of. Quite frankly, the Irregulars list is practically custum-designed to work with these two.
Durgen especially loves the Irregulars. It's hard to imagine a Theme list that compliments his abilities better than this one. He's a D+ or C-list caster at the moment, but with Irregulars backing him up, I would place him in the B+ or A ranking. He also happens to be just plain FUN, which is always a bonus.
Ossrum plays well in Irregulars too, although you would have to purchase a whole lot more Rhulic stuff for him to be worth it. The other two Casters would absolutely fit your model collection better. Ossrum is one of our top 3 competetive casters, but I would probably move him into a "maybe someday" sort of category.
HUMAN IRREGULARS-
Right off the bat, we have Damiano. He is another of our "top three" in terms of casters. Previously, he was bascially just a Kingmaker caster, but with Irregulars, I can see even a lot more possibilities. He loves Kayazy, and Nyss with Deadeye are pretty boss. I would probably reccomend getting some Steelhead Halbardiers with him, but you are going to want to purchase those guys anyhow, so it's not a big deal.
As far as the remaining casters go...who knows? The Theme is way too new, and has WAY too many options to be solved yet, so it's difficult to reccomend a direction to pursue. As long as you stay away from Ashlyn, Constance, Caine3 and probably Magnus1, you are golden.
If pressed, I would reccomend Fiona, Magnus2 and MacBain as potential options that work well with the models that you have. Fiona and MacBain are very strong, but are probably best relegated to the "off list" in a Steamroller pairing. Basically lists that are specially designed to take on specific opponents. Magnus2 and/or Damiano would be better served as your workhorse casters.
PURCHASING PLAN
As you stated, you need to get a few new things. Like I reccomended before, you need to determine if you are getting into Rhulic or Human casters. If Rhulic, then I would say get about 3 Drillers, and 2-3 packs of Gunners and/or Blasters, depending on your preference (I like about a 1 Blaster per 2 Gunner ratio, but that's just me). If you are going with a human caster, then I would say grab a Mangler, 2-3 Nomads, and a couple of lights - Buccaneers and Talons are best. For an additionaly option, a Freebooter is a steal at 9 points.
Beyond the battlegroup, I would reccomend grabing at least one (preferably two) units of Steelhead Halberdiers. Most of my non-Hammer Strike lists start with two units of 10 Steelheads. Honestly, 20 dudes (with effective and flexible abilities) for 22 pts is just about the best value of infantry you can find in the entire game. Not the number one best, maybe, but easily in the top five somewhere.
For solos? Not much, as you already own most of them. Grab the Piper, since as a Khador player you don't have him, but after that you are great. Another useful purchase might be the Rhulic artillery. Honestly, these guys are just plain money, and do count towards the free Solo points in Irregulars. Finally I would also reccomend Rutger Shaw. I know you said you were not interested in Jack Marshals, but honestly this guys is really effective at it. Give him a Freebooter or a Talon, and you have a really effective and powerful package.
That's about what I can come up with on the fly. Hope that helped
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Post by BarbeChenue on Aug 21, 2017 14:29:57 GMT
Great replies!! Thank you very much! I'll be looking into your suggestions.
Do you have example lists?
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Post by mikethefish on Aug 21, 2017 15:39:30 GMT
Again, not a lot of lists I can definitely recomend to you as being 100 percent effective, as most folks just haven't had time to test things out too much. Here's a MacBain list that I am trying on Tuesday night...
MacBain
--Mangler (0)
--Nomad (0)
--Nomad (6)
Kayazy Eliminators (5)
Kayazy Eliminators (5)
Nyss Hunters (19)
Steelheads (11)
Steelheads (11)
Aiyana & Holt (8)
Rutger Shaw (0)
--Talon (7)
Eiyriss1 (0)
Ragman (0)
Piper (0)
Gobber Tinker (2)
Like I said, only theory at this point, but I feel pretty good about the list. Mainly it is an experiment to see if I like the Nyss again, now that they are in theme (wasn't impressed with them before). The advantage for you, of course, is that it uses a lot of stuff you already have.
A good alternative to this would be to swap MacBain for Fiona. She has 1 additional Warjack Point, so that would allow you to...
-swap out the Gobber Tinker for Dirty Meg
-give Rutger's Talon over to Meg, and...
-swap out Shaw for another solo. Fiona loves Sylys, so that's an option, but Hutchuk is great in SR 2017, so that would be great, too.
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Post by mikethefish on Aug 21, 2017 16:03:08 GMT
And again - on the subject of Jack Marshals. Lets assume you grab a cheap one - like Dirty Meg in the above example. You take a 7pt Talon with her. Thanks to her Drive, it has Pathfinder and Reposition 3" - which is, of course, pretty sweet.
Assuming you can engineer a Flank (a trivial matter, since it's all Friendly Faction warrior models), you can use either "Hurry" or "Crush" depending on the distance you need...
IF IT HAS TO CHARGE:
The Talon's spear is MAT 10, POW 15 + 4d6, causing Stall.
Shield attack is Mat 8 (autohitting a warjack, because of Stall), POW 10 + 3d6
IF IT DOESN'T HAVE TO CHARGE:
You get one MAT 8, POW 15 + 4d6, causing Stall
One MAT 8, POW 15 + 3d6, Stall
Shield is MAT 8, POW 12 + 3d6
Meg's gun also causes Stall, so you can fire that first to set up a good combo (autohitting in melee is pretty effective). This little package uses a mere 7 points of your army. It does eat up a free solo slot, and that's not nothing, but it also contributes to the points needed to earn those free solos too, so that's a good thing. Now, I am not saying that this little guy will one-round Khador heavies or anthing... but it certainly will put a giant fragging hole in one. And additionally, it's a rugged little roadblock that can claim rectangular zones.
Just food for thought!
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Post by BarbeChenue on Aug 22, 2017 1:27:19 GMT
Amazing! I have to let that sink in for a moment. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question so well!
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706 
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Post by shoe on Aug 22, 2017 5:02:17 GMT
talon is pow 13 MAT 10 on charge under Hurry
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Post by mikethefish on Aug 22, 2017 9:34:11 GMT
Ah yeah. Think I added a Brutal Charge bonus in there when I shouldn't have.
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Post by gobber on Aug 22, 2017 20:50:09 GMT
EDIT - I forgot to mention this, but the Nomad is the Juggernaut of the faction, rather than the Mangler. I personally like the Mangler, but I wouldn't recommend getting more than one, where I would recommend getting 2-3 Nomads. It does eat up a free solo slot, and that's not nothing, but it also contributes to the points needed to earn those free solos too, so that's a good thing. Now, I am not saying that this little guy will one-round Khador heavies or anthing... but it certainly will put a giant fragging hole in one. Multiple nomads are essential. Three nomads is by far my most common battlegroup setup. I actually have six. As long as you're playing a caster with 28+ warjack points, Meg doesn't have to eat a free solo slot if everything else is units and jacks. This might be helpful for those damage averages; assumes a free charge from Lanyssa, Shae, or Mags1. Juggernauts are 34hp.  |
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Post by BarbeChenue on Sept 27, 2017 21:16:43 GMT
I've made some mercenary purchases, and I'd like to continue the conversation about list building opportunities.
The list speaks for itself that I have chosen "human" mercs in general.
Ashlyn
Bart
Damiano
Shae
Macbain
Fiona
Magnus1
Magnus 2
2 manglers
2 mariners
2 mule
3 nomads
2 renegades
Rocinante
Gallant
Talon
2 Galleon
Alexia 1
Commodore
Croe's cut throats
Herne and joan
2 press gangers
2 sea dogs 1 UA and 3 rifflemen
Steelheads cav
Steelheads Rifflemen
Alexia 2
Anastasia
Bradigan
Grogspar
Dirty meg
Killingsworth
First mate hawk
Gaston
Rockbottom
Ogrun Bokur
Harrison Gibbs
Dougal MacNaile
Rhupert
Savio
Brocker
Tarin
Thor
I'm very curious about potential brews!
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Sept 28, 2017 4:39:34 GMT
rather than talk about the umpteen jillion different builds you can do with those models it is faster to tell you u need river raiders. also who convinced you to get 2 galleons? das awful.
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Post by BarbeChenue on Sept 28, 2017 14:25:07 GMT
It was a package deal. All above average painted quality.
Why River Raiders?
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Sept 28, 2017 15:22:18 GMT
Because Shoe is a master at troll-foo, that is why. River raiders have a very limited spot with one warlock in minions, and I have a theory of another SUPER niche spot with Fiona (in which she probably has better options honestly), and other than that I've never heard or seen them be any kind of useful.
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