crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Aug 14, 2017 4:40:11 GMT
So it's late and I can't sleep, so I start thinking about my favourite pirate on the imorren seas, captain "broadsides" Bartolo! Soooo... I was thinking of the following list;
Bart +26 - Nomad (11) - Nomad (11) - Galleon (39) Min sea dogs + 3 WA (11) Commodore cannon (7) Ayiana and Holt (8) Lord Rock bottom (4) Master gunner Dougal (4)
And can't decide which one of the following; Doc killings worth Rhupert Piper of Ord Reinholdt Raluk Mooreclaw
Basic premise is accurate each shooting from range followed by jamming the sea dogs in and using nomads, Bart, Galleon for melee devastation. Just can't despise which option I like more. Anti stealth? Repair? Or extra utility / survival of the sea dogs. I'm also considering pairing it with my dwarf list which is as follows;
Hammer strike Ossrum -Avalancher -Driller -Spray bunny -Spray bunny -Gun bunny -Gun bunny Thor Herne and johnne Forge guard max Siege crawler TAC Artillery core Bokur
Soooo thoughts? Just bored... can't sleep and some of the math could be off haha
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Aug 14, 2017 13:22:43 GMT
Just my experience, but spending 20 points on 5 bodies never seems to work out for me. I'd be looking at ways to get a bit more jam into your jamming force.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Aug 14, 2017 18:49:56 GMT
Just my experience, but spending 20 points on 5 bodies never seems to work out for me. I'd be looking at ways to get a bit more jam into your jamming force. Just curious, where did you get 20 points for five bodies? I'm running a minimum unit of sea dogs, with 1 support model to help them jam (six bodies for 8 points, with a possible 4 point solo). I actually plan on using the range 14 rifles as shooting because with a coin they become rat 6 (8 if aiming) pow 12. Under dougal mini feat that's a pow 12 at 16 inches away. Not great but the idea is to drop as much of the enemy from as far away as possible before finally sending in the cheap six dudes, two nomads and an angry bart to destroy what's left
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Post by gobber on Aug 14, 2017 19:24:15 GMT
And can't decide which one of the following; Doc killings worth Rhupert Piper of Ord Reinholdt Raluk Mooreclaw None of those provide worthwhile benefit to your list. Is ragman an option? He's the best support model the galleon has (far higher priority than dougal). Other question: are the nomads intended to jam? Sea dogs aren't going to do that on their own (press gangers would be vastly preferable for that task anyway). If you have the models, talon offer far better boxes/point than nomads do (plus stall makes enemies focus inefficient, and is wicked on free strikes), and Galleon loves ignoring the melee def bonus on its harpoon shots (again via stall).
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Aug 14, 2017 19:52:25 GMT
Sorry! Should have been more clear. A&H is 2, the other 3 are 3 in total for 20 points.
Ayiana and Holt (8) Lord Rock bottom (4) Master gunner Dougal (4)
And can't decide which one of the following; Doc killings worth Rhupert Piper of Ord Reinholdt Raluk Mooreclaw
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Aug 14, 2017 21:27:25 GMT
Xintas - OOOOOOOOOH! Got ya! yeah rock bottom and dougal are in it for the commodore, and I figured giving Rock bottom another target (other than the cannon) for his coins would make him more worth his points. Dougal for his mini feat which gets the galleon, holt, the cannon and the WA from the sea dogs to really nice ranges. Also Aiyana has the nice damage amplifier and magic weapons if needed. gobber - Yeah, the only problem with press gangers is... no guns. Hence why I like the sea dogs for the black penny, range 14, can be boosted by the solos i'm bringing, guns. I know they're no where near as survivable (PGs have they're recursion AND natural tough which makes them better jammers i'm aware) but I've played a list similiar to this and although the few guns is AWESOME... there just inst enough of them . I guess the idea is the Sea Dogs hang back (letting the WA get as many shots as possible with help from Barts feat, and acting as bodies in the way (prferably with some kind of tough to help)) until the lines HAVE to close, then charge in. If they kill something, awesome, if all they do is allow for my rifles to get another go, just as good. The Nomads I guess are there to sweep in and kill what ever has been softened up by my shooting (from Holt, Cannon, Galleon, x3 WA, and possibly a few other shots depending). ALL that being said, I do appreciate the feed back! After all it's getting me thinking. I just wish there was a cheaper / different shooty unit then the pirates :/.
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Post by gobber on Aug 14, 2017 22:09:19 GMT
Min sea dogs + 3 WA (11) Soooo thoughts? Just bored... can't sleep and some of the math could be off haha Yeah I figured it was for the guns, but it sounds like neither the pirates or nomads are serving as jammers then. Which is kinda concerning, the Galleon wants something to hold off enemy heavies long enough for it to reel them in one-by-one. Also, min sea dogs+3xWA is 14 points, which puts your list at 72/75 points. If you don't want further changes, bloody bradigan! Rockbottom giving him boosted attacks+berserk+overtake is a sneaky little back pocket combo... Dirty meg is another good choice for the repair and stall gun. Otherwise, swapping nomads for triple talon gives you a jamming force, and frees up a point for Ragman instead.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Aug 15, 2017 2:25:34 GMT
Well I proxied the list (minus the solo so I guess I was three points under :/) and... I like the rifles. I mean I screwed up with them royally but I liked that I had the option had I used them right. I did find dougal not to really have much use (my opponent just ran everything into my normal range, and his army had relatively low Def any way), but I still feel like artillerist might come in handy when I'm staring down high def beasts. I also miss read Lord rock bottoms coins and found out they do not boost attack DAMAGE rolls, but just the attack rolls themselves... sooooooo that made me sad.
I like the idea of Bloody bradigan as hopefully that gives the pirates a little punch, course since it is a Galleon list, maybe repair would be better to keep around? Of course this also means I have to actually pick up meg and or bradigan... more money I was hoping to not spend :/ .
Over all the list feels good... buuuuut missing... something. and I unfortunately don't have points really to put that something in :/. Oh and while I do actually own Talons... the vast majority of my games (easy 75% or more) are against hordes... so stall really doesn't do it for me, and only having a pow 20/22 on one model leaves me pretty low on the pow scale, and I don't like that one bit...
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Post by gobber on Aug 15, 2017 2:41:54 GMT
Over all the list feels good... buuuuut missing... something. and I unfortunately don't have points really to put that something in :/. Oh and while I do actually own Talons... the vast majority of my games (easy 75% or more) are against hordes... so stall really doesn't do it for me, and only having a pow 20/22 on one model leaves me pretty low on the pow scale, and I don't like that one bit... If you know you'll be facing that much hordes skipping the talons is sensible. Hrrm... If you made one of the nomads into a freebooter and dropped dougal, you'd have the 9pts needed to get Mr. Walls and a max sea dog unit? AD/toughcoins gives you a bit of jam, and the Commodore can KD targets for the freebooter when needed
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Aug 15, 2017 3:37:45 GMT
bart list is a total disaster. cannon is stuck 3" off ur starting line or it won't shoot until turn 3. ur 9 sea dogs are dead by turn 3 leaving u with 2 nomads and a galleon to contest everything. best unit for bart out of theme is kayazy eliminators to score and contest zones. solos are ragman, orin and sylys only or u end up with solo bloat. cannon stays with shae and instead bart runs lots of lights to add more high arm bodies and boxes
he loses to fyanna2 oracles and ghoats fleet no matter what so i don't play him
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Post by gobber on Aug 15, 2017 4:47:34 GMT
You can make your points without all the hyperbole and dismissiveness...
There is a good point in there about Bart's focus load and keeping him safe; without Sylys if you're upkeeping hot shot, loading the galleon and battening Bart's nearly always going to be naked (and there's nothing for the nomads). Hiding behind the Galleon really isn't sufficient against anyone gunning for bart (getting LoS isn't *that* hard). There are are quite a few things around that can see through the Galleon one way or another (shadow fire, ghost shot, etc), and it helps to have ways to mitigate that (Orin, Shield guards, etc). It's much more of a concern if you're intending to be super competitive (not the sense I get) and as Shoe mentioned it's not like Bart's competitive lists have solved the meta boogeymen anyway so keep experimenting!
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Aug 15, 2017 11:42:19 GMT
you know the weird thing is... I've actually only lost one game with Bart, and only cause my opponent happened to get 14 on three dice... TWICE! Usually though I find he's a lot stronger than most realize, and they expect me to keep him way back and to not do much with him. However most times I play him (by himself) he's taken out a heavy, and usually close to two units worth of models. Lol probably just luck I know, but it happens quite often.
As for the "boogey man" lists I don't really deal with Ghost Fleet (not many warmachine players again) and I have yet to actually see a Fyanna list that scares me in any way (not with this list mind you as I've played it only once so far). Though the Sea Dogs were alive the whole game, and I forced my opponent to go for janky assassination or bust... which just happened to work out (as mentioned above).
I was wondering if Mr. Walls would be worth it... might have to give it a go! Also, I seem to mostly use the Galleon as a shooting platform... I think I've gotten the drag off once, and now everyone stays at least 12 inches away (plus his movement) with anything that can be dragged :/ That or they put tiny annoying crap in the way to prevent it...
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Aug 15, 2017 12:49:21 GMT
Kinda to the some of the points that other people are making, have you considered vanguards instead of nomads? Lower punch, but it gives you that shooty flexibility along with shield guard. Also, if you aren't playing into a ton of Legion, Buccaneers are thematic and offer a good chunk of jamming for 6 pts, in addition to a quasi rat boost by knocking things down (which is a ranged attack and therefore can be made to fire by bart).
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Post by gobber on Aug 16, 2017 3:16:01 GMT
Well this is now an Irregulars theme list. Take your starting list, add another nomad (or any jack/unit up to 11pts), and you can take four solos free.
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