Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334 
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Post by Fire Step on Aug 7, 2017 12:31:45 GMT
G'Day
Looking at High Reclaimer moving forward as a caster to shift into my regular rotation. I've read the card : he likes his dudes. I've looked over the lists on discount games and seen the following similarities:
Knights exemplar with UA
Cleansers with UA
(Some instances of) Temple flameguard with UA
After that it seems to be a sprinkling of warjacks, without much preference for ranged or melee oriented.
Points of thought:
From looking at him and the lists I don't think he really wants to be seeing lots of power solos in his list like harbinger does.
Despite having sacrificial lamb AND hand of fate I don't think it's particularly valuable to fill up with warjacks.
If he's taking a unit I think he almost always wants the UA- not only another body, but the battle college entry reads the following;
"If you have a unit with a dead Officer, use the feat to "Leap frog" your resurrected troopers an extra 4". Place the resurrected Officer 3" in front of the current unit commander (ie the Leader model), then the Officer will become the new unit commander and additional troopers can be summoned 3" in front of him. (3" + base width = about 4" extra.)"
I'm not sure how much value this holds since the resurrected trooper still has to be inside the control area of HR, but still food for thought.
I've put together the below list, ex theme since the hierophant is only in Creators wrath (for some unknown reason!!!)
War Room Army
Protectorate of Menoth - High Reclaimer
Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army
The High Reclaimer - WJ: +32
- Hierophant - PC: 3
- Revenger - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
- Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16)
- Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
Wrack - PC: 1
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
Flameguard Cleansers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
- Flameguard Cleanser Officer - PC: 4
Temple Flameguard - Leader & 9 Grunts: 11
- Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
Knights Exemplar - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9
- Knights Exemplar Officer - PC: 5
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard - Rhoven, Gius & Cassian: 9
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GENERATED : 08/07/2017 13:30:41
BUILD ID : 2047.17-07-25
I'd love to hear some dojo from people, what works and what doesn't with him. I know he's reported as top tier, but the internet has been known to exaggerate in the past...
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d3z
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by d3z on Aug 7, 2017 14:19:16 GMT
HR was a menace in the early days of the edition, which is what your reading on the internet may still be referring to. Earlier this year (I'm going to guess Feb), HR's feat was nerfed to reduce the threat range achievable by your returned models, and to prevent you from returning an officer you had just killed yourself to extend the command bubble. Still playable after the feat nerf, but not the force he once was. There is still some trickery that can be done by killing your own models on feat turn, but it's limited to killing your unit leader to move the unit commander through field promotion. Before, it was trivial to deliver a bunch of knights exemplar onto an enemy caster who started the turn more than 20 inches away from any one of your knights.
I tend to only spend the BG points on jacks, and nothing more. I've seen Scourge + Reckoner, 2x Reckoner, and even 3x Crusader. The rest of the points are for infantry. Idrians and cleansers are common choices mostly due to the mileage they can get out of hand of fate. Knights exemplar are a great feat target, and are common as you've noticed. Cavalry used to be a great feat target, but I haven't seen them as much post-nerf.
HR lists I build are mostly variations of the following:
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HR: +32
- Hierophant: 3
- Reckoner: 16
- Scourge of Heresy: 16
Allegiant: 3
Wrack: 1
Anastasia: 3
Choir (min): 4
Idrians (max + CA): 20
Cleansers (min + CA): 13
Knights + CA: 14
Knights + CA: 14
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Aug 7, 2017 16:27:04 GMT
Yeah, the melee assassination threat from his feat has all but disappeared.
It can still be done, but takes much more planning and is not the easy button it used to be
The design intent apparently to be focused more on the attrition/scenario game now
He has his share of bad match-ups
For example, in retribution, Ossyan with Shatterstorm to remove things from play
Also, against Cygnar, he has a bad matchup against lists with lots of electro-leaps (he can't collect souls from the destroyed models because the electro leap does not count as an enemy attack
I could be wrong, but RFP lists tailored to go against Ghost Fleet or Grymkin are probably pretty good drops against HR
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 7, 2017 16:30:17 GMT
I really wish they would let us collect souls from anything that dies. E-leaps ignoring that mechanic is single handedly keeping Testament out of my parings.
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Aug 7, 2017 19:38:51 GMT
Yeah, the Reclaimer solo doesn't care, but apparently HR and Testament are a little more discriminating
Honestly, I am not sure if it is a balancing thing, or just something they didn't think about. It's hard to tell considering some of the stuff they just never consider.
They probably gave them the version that prevents you from getting souls by killing your own guys since they tried toning that down and called it a day. The not collecting from e-leap deaths part was just an incidental side effect they never bothered testing with them.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Aug 8, 2017 8:24:30 GMT
Yeah, the Reclaimer solo doesn't care, but apparently HR and Testament are a little more discriminating Honestly, I am not sure if it is a balancing thing, or just something they didn't think about. It's hard to tell considering some of the stuff they just never consider. They probably gave them the version that prevents you from getting souls by killing your own guys since they tried toning that down and called it a day. The not collecting from e-leap deaths part was just an incidental side effect they never bothered testing with them. I think them simply not paying attention to this kind of thing, or at least not communicating to us that they are, is why our lists and faction tend to feel so marginalized right now. The number of cool toys displayed in other factions have a habit of casually overshadowing or countering something we do, or try to stop others from doing, or both. Grymkin have several examples core to their lists, but Kallus 2, Durgen, Horgle, Garrity, the e-leap (and similar effects) thing, increasing RFP killing our recursive guys, and the entire extended revelator debacle as an icing for the cake.
Sprinkle in that some of our best combos and our actual best models are either restricted or absent in the themes (monks and hierophant, Malekus and his artillery), our theme benefits don't actually buff the supposed theme elements (except one unit of daughters), our themes usually get us less points than other factions, and they're trying to give away the choir again, and....well, I just find it harder and harder to pick up my paintbrush. I have the same passion for the game as a whole, but less for the faction right now.
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Post by dicebedamned on Aug 8, 2017 12:23:05 GMT
I like to run Hr with minimal jacks and maximum weapon masters to maximise my feat choices.
I regularly run SoH, BoM as my BG, and then I run Flamebringers, Cinerators, and Exemplars as my WM with a big unit of Cleansers and UA to provide souls/ piss off BoM when they die close by.
Unfortunately, atm Ghost Fleet is a bogeyman list, and RFP is the counter, which just so happens to be the answer to HR too...
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Post by WantonRanger on Aug 9, 2017 7:24:09 GMT
Quick and probably stupid question but why does everyone run scourge of heresy so popular with HR?
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Aug 9, 2017 8:29:21 GMT
Quick and probably stupid question but why does everyone run scourge of heresy so popular with HR? Probably just a very good value warjack, especially since HR appears to go out of theme a lot. A warjack with two reach weapons and arcane ward for 16 points is fairly tasty. |
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Post by dicebedamned on Aug 9, 2017 12:26:58 GMT
Aye, for me, if I am only going to want to run two jacks so I can load up on weapon master dudes, then those two jacks need to be able to pull their own weight. SoH and BoM are in my opinion the two best warjacks in PoM, and they just so happen to fit exactly into HR's WJP.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Aug 9, 2017 13:58:21 GMT
Aye, for me, if I am only going to want to run two jacks so I can load up on weapon master dudes, then those two jacks need to be able to pull their own weight. SoH and BoM are in my opinion the two best warjacks in PoM, and they just so happen to fit exactly into HR's WJP. I'd Like to submit FoS for consideration in this as well. He also has a revenge mechanic, so in a list with a lot of dudes to die for him it makes things threatening.
Also, BoM is better than SoH under Testament and Durst, IMO. Stacking the two revenge mechanics is awesome.
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Post by dicebedamned on Aug 10, 2017 12:25:23 GMT
I'd forgotten about FoS to be honest. I agree he would work well due to the dudes dying thing. I still think I prefer SoH for the thresher and the spell mitigation.
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