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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 7, 2017 11:44:01 GMT
As I mentioned last week I took Caine 3 and Darius to a local Steamroller, thought I would do a brief write up and my thoughts on the lists and SR17 now I have done my first tourney with it. My lists were:
Caine 3 (Heavy Metal) - Squire - Ace - Thunderhead - 6 x Chargers
Arlan Junior - Firefly
Darius (Heavy Metal) - Squire - Stormwall - Stormwall - Lancer - Sentinel
Arlan Junior - Sentinel Runewood
Game 1: Caine 3 vs Maelock Stand-off
My opponents list was
Maelock - Wrastler - Wrastler - Ironback
Brun and Lug Rorsh and Brine
Max Farrow Brigands and Warlord Min Bone Grinders Gobber Chef
The Scenario was stand-off, basically he jammed me with his beasts and feated to get extra armour, I tried to be cute and kill Brun and Rorsh, I dropped a Magesight on Brun in a forest, but then a Charger moving to shoot him got counter-charged by Lug, I forced Rorsh to make a tough check which he made, as he has feign death I was planning on using trick shot to finish him, however I discovered that Ace only gets the rune shots while in control, so that put an end to that. I ended up just shooting both Lug and Brine off the table, and damaging another wrestler, however I should have just focused the beasts down from the start and ignored the Juniors. In the end I could not contest and my opponent got 5 points ahead
Game 2: Darius vs Thagrosh 1 Breakdown
My opponents list was:
Thagrosh - Blightbringer - Typhon - Naga
2 x Hellmouths Min Warspears +UA
Warspear Chieften Spell Martyr
My opponent made the mistake of moving his Naga too far up, so I ran and jackhammered it to death, my thinking was that as long as he does not wraithbane, Typhon cannot kill a Stormwall in one turn. He started by attacking with Typhon which did about half of his damage, he then realised thags could feat back the naga, which he did, so thags went in and finished off the Stormwall, however he left thags open to my other Stormwall he promptly killed him. My opponent is fairly new to the game so I won due to his mistakes rather than my ability on this one.
Game 3: Siege vs Kreuger 2 Outlast
My opponents list was
Krueger 2 - Megalith - Pureblood - 3 x Woldwyrds
Celestial Fulrum
2 x Sentry Stones Shifting Stones
Hutchuck
I did not bother with Arcane Shield or Fortify while the Woldwyrds were alive, basically he threw everything and the kitchen sink shooting at a Stormwall and killed it on his last manikin spray, at the point it was pretty much over and he coasted to a scenario win.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 7, 2017 11:44:18 GMT
Thoughts on Caine 3
I still love the list, however I really felt the pain of only having Caine 3 to score round zones, I might have to re-gig the list to get some sword knights or even min mechanics in there. I might drop Thunderhead and the Firefly in order to make it my dedicated Cygnar drop.
Thoughts on Darius
I don't think double colossal is the way to go, Mk 3 seems too geared towards killing heavies that even arm buffed Stormwalls are not that difficult to kill for most lists, especially when you have no screen or Haley 2s/ Stryker 1s feat to buy you a turn of immunity.
Thoughts on SR17 oh boy is scenario live right now! having a wide spread of board influence seems essential, might have to rethink running purely battle group-focused lists and get some more diversity in there
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Post by darkangeldentist on Aug 7, 2017 12:46:36 GMT
Min mechanics are amazingly valuable in jack heavy lists and I almost always included one anyway because Arlan has better things to do than sticking an arm back on. With the new scenarios mechanics are a very cheap, utterly expendable and sometimes surprisingly tricky unit to remove. (Gobbers are good at dodging.)
Since you are a point down in the Caine3 list you can fit in a min unit of mechanics and two cyclones if you drop thunderhead and the firefly. Covering fire on the cyclone may be more limited than it used to be with only one template but it's still POW 12 and Caine can pull them back after placing so they can actually safely put it down against Ret. (Which is cute.) Covering fire is amazingly powerful against Cryx melee and can give you a lot of breathing room for contesting against the Cryx infantry swarm.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 7, 2017 12:55:57 GMT
Min mechanics are amazingly valuable in jack heavy lists and I almost always included one anyway because Arlan has better things to do than sticking an arm back on. With the new scenarios mechanics are a very cheap, utterly expendable and sometimes surprisingly tricky unit to remove. (Gobbers are good at dodging.) Since you are a point down in the Caine3 list you can fit in a min unit of mechanics and two cyclones if you drop thunderhead and the firefly. Covering fire on the cyclone may be more limited than it used to be with only one template but it's still POW 12 and Caine can pull them back after placing so they can actually safely put it down against Ret. (Which is cute.) Covering fire is amazingly powerful against Cryx melee and can give you a lot of breathing room for contesting against the Cryx infantry swarm. I actually really like that idea of min mechanics and two cyclones, as 50% of the scenarios have round zones on the outside, having a unit of mechanics to potentially score it leaves Caine to bully the centre of the board more if he wants to
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Post by snarlyyow on Aug 8, 2017 0:04:46 GMT
I actually think you have to put Arcane Shield on the Stormwalls until, at least, you kill the stones and such. It shouldn't affect the dice math on damage rolls *much* from the Wyrds but it really hurts against various sprays and such.
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Post by sludgeogre on Aug 8, 2017 6:01:13 GMT
Thoughts on Darius
I don't think double colossal is the way to go, Mk 3 seems too geared towards killing heavies that even arm buffed Stormwalls are not that difficult to kill for most lists, especially when you have no screen or Haley 2s/ Stryker 1s feat to buy you a turn of immunity.
Thoughts on SR17 oh boy is scenario live right now! having a wide spread of board influence seems essential, might have to rethink running purely battle group-focused lists and get some more diversity in there
Double colossal seems like a massive risk in the current meta for sure. I see Typhon and Skin and Moans a lot and they are just too much to deal with sometimes. Scenario is super live. See comments below. This is very true. Arlan gets a critical repair in there once in a while, but I find myself needing to capture a flag, contest, give magic weapons to something or hand out focus more often. I actually ordered a unit of Mechaniks a couple days ago because of how live the circular zones are in SR2017. In a recent game, my opponent and I were both using lists that only had one unit each in a scenario with two circular zones, so if one of us had taken a second unit it would have put an amazing amount of pressure on the other player. Hiding a min unit of Mechaniks behind a Storm Strider, keeping it alive and scoring the zone with them, is an insane value for only 3 points. They are almost an auto-include now with how live the scenario becomes in most games.
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Post by sludgeogre on Aug 8, 2017 6:14:19 GMT
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 8, 2017 7:10:41 GMT
I actually think you have to put Arcane Shield on the Stormwalls until, at least, you kill the stones and such. It shouldn't affect the dice math on damage rolls *much* from the Wyrds but it really hurts against various sprays and such. Problem is even though the Woldwyrds don't have blessed, between the pure blood and Krueger he can hand out 3 Wraithbanes to them. I have had a single Woldwyrds take down half an arcane shielded Stormwall in a single turn before, 3 Woldwyrds would have been a sure death sentence. 9 shots between 3 of them, additional die on each shot, average of 3 per dice ends up being 27 more damage from the Woldwyrds
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 8, 2017 8:04:40 GMT
I do think Darius double colossal has game into certain things, Haley 2 being one of them, however seeing how geared lists tend to be now towards killing buffed heavies, I don't think they have the staying power
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Post by gimli on Aug 8, 2017 11:17:44 GMT
I actually think you have to put Arcane Shield on the Stormwalls until, at least, you kill the stones and such. It shouldn't affect the dice math on damage rolls *much* from the Wyrds but it really hurts against various sprays and such. Problem is even though the Woldwyrds don't have blessed, between the pure blood and Krueger he can hand out 3 Wraithbanes to them. I have had a single Woldwyrds take down half an arcane shielded Stormwall in a single turn before, 3 Woldwyrds would have been a sure death sentence. 9 shots between 3 of them, additional die on each shot, average of 3 per dice ends up being 27 more damage from the Woldwyrds As the Circle player in question, I would have been very happy if some upkeeps were out because I did have access to Wraithbane. I was trying to tempt him into casting them but he was having none of it
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Post by darkangeldentist on Aug 8, 2017 11:29:40 GMT
I want to know how a mannikin made it past the covering fire to be able to spray a stormwall? With 2 shield guards and some of the circle guns being unable to hurt your colossal I get the impression the circle player must have rolled some amazing damage to one-round a stormwall.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 8, 2017 11:53:03 GMT
I want to know how a mannikin made it past the covering fire to be able to spray a stormwall? With 2 shield guards and some of the circle guns being unable to hurt your colossal I get the impression the circle player must have rolled some amazing damage to one-round a stormwall. basically their was a building in the middle, meaning I had to split my Stormwalls either side, I opted to put both shield guards with the one that I had to position inside the Purebloods TK + Charge range, my thinking was that he could weaken it first with shooting and use the Pureblood to finish it off. I underestimated slightly the ranged output of the 3 Wolds and the Fulcrum, especially once he TKd Hutchuck to get a rust bomb off, in hindsight I should have put one sentinel with each Stormwall, as Rust was what really pushed it over the edge damage wise. however if I had done that he could have still focused down my left hand Stormwall as much as possible and then send the Pureblood in to finish it in melee, so I am not sure the result would have been any different.
with the manikin's he spawned them past my covering fire template
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