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Post by Havock on Mar 10, 2017 9:08:44 GMT
So I recently had the chance to pick a max and min box for not that much, two UA blisters removed from having 24 of them.
So is it a bad idea?
They are not terribly expensive, and easily slot in a list with a bunch of 'jacks for flanking purposes, off the top of my head this would play reasonably well? -Maddox: Add a Jr. Add Rhupert, have two DEF 13/15 ARM17 tough no-KD blobs that hit as hard as Iron Fang pikemen on feat turn without taking flank into account. -Stryker1: Keeps them alive and can set up strong 'mop up'-turns. -Stryker2: Positive Charge. Feat. Yolo. -Stryker3: 5d6 damage rolls on feat are pretty kek. -Haley1: Extra attacks, Temporal Barrier and AS. -Haley2: Control, TK can make flanking easier (as well as getting Ragman in etc.) Probably the ballsiest way to play her :v -Haley3: Add trencher cloud wall for fun and profit? -Jakes2: Positive charge, feat for reach and electroleap? Parry on BG means I can easily get a firefly behind the target so it doesn't screw up charge lanes.
Wouldn't do it in both lists of course, but it doesn't seem that bad of a choice in the current meta, they are modestly hard to hit in melee, and if they can get a flank off they can easily rip open 'jacks (might need a boost from Raggy or positive charge/something else against Khador heavies unless you can mob them)
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Mar 10, 2017 14:16:14 GMT
I've done double sword knights under Stryker2 a few times. It's fun, but the little guys die fast. Flank and positive charge does make them get some work done.
Now, with Haley3, they can get to a fairly impressive defense skew. I don't know about 2 units with her, though. Maybe in heavy metal?
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 10, 2017 14:18:51 GMT
If you're running lots of reach jacks (or really high jacks in general), i could possibly see it. I generally prefer one unit myself because until lodged in melee, SK's do not stand up to infantry hate well, and there's a ton of that.
That said: there is something to say for a load of flanking dudes with high defense in melee. Like most of our infantry, the rub is delivery.
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Post by trickytaco on Mar 10, 2017 17:46:36 GMT
I like a using single unit with pStryker and Rhupert. DEF 18 on the way in (against most stuff) from blur and mists. Feating the turn you get stuck in will help more survive, and tough/no kd can be really frustrating for the opponent if the dice decide to favour you.
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Post by bloodsplatterartist on Mar 10, 2017 18:50:02 GMT
all the way across the sky...
I'm not sure about double units, One with a buff can get work done. Maybe if you were looking to spam flankable jacks.
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Post by silent on Mar 10, 2017 20:05:35 GMT
I think the main issue will be spreading your points around. As posters have said above me, keeping these dudes alive can be a bit of a chore. They make a nice screening unit, a good distraction, and with the right buffs and flank, they can be pretty brutal. Their solo is pretty helpful if you're going to be running them, so maybe something to look into. The problem with them is that without buffs they die left right and center to almost everything. I used to run a full squad with E Stryker and found that if I wanted them to make it into combat, I had to keep them buffed and keep them safe. Maybe stagger them? Buff the first line to keep them alive long enough to get the second line into combat? Then switch buffs as needed?
You're going to be spending a decent amount of points keeping these guys alive, and if you want to make the best use of flank you'll want to spam Warjacks with long reaching weapons - like several people said above me. But this will limit the number of heavy 'jacks that you can run. So you'll be going for quantity and not quality, which can leave you with some pillow fists if you lose too many knights. If you're thinking about using E Stryker, I'd suggest spamming lancers - keep those rebuke options up!
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Mar 10, 2017 20:34:25 GMT
^^^ Yeah, with Stryker2, Lancers are great. You can keep the rebuke angles open, and applying positive charge to one is easy because arc node.
I will say, the CA is usually not worth bringing. The unit is solid without it, and the purpose for bringing the Knights is supposed to be that they are cheap. Reposition 3 is okay, but not worth 4 points, and CMA is usually not helpful. With flank, Runewood, and positive charge, they get up to MAT 11. And pow 12 wm, they hit plenty hard.
Maybe Stryker2 in Heavy Metal?
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Post by Havock on Mar 10, 2017 23:21:40 GMT
I understand the points, it would mostly be a way to produce a list pairing along the lines of "this is a Cygnar list, this is mk2 Khador list, hope you have a list that can deal with both."
I think if I run 2 squads that reposition will be quite important considering the real estate 20+ dudes will take up.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Mar 11, 2017 0:36:00 GMT
Fair point. I think the real estate taken up by 20-24 dudes will have a few factors to consider: 1. If your opponent has shooting, then there won't be 20-24 dudes when you get there. 2. It will depend on what else you have on the table. If you have 5-10 warjacks moving around, then I can see the dudes getting in the way. 3. The number/size/position of the knights targets will also matter. If they're all crowding around 1 heavy, then there will be issues.
I can only speak to my own experience with them. And I will note that my own meta contains lists that run more than the orthodox amount of infantry (most players bring 2-4 units of something). The knights in my lists have usually found themselves too occupied to all focus on 1 target. Some of them in a unit fight a nearby jack/beast while some of them are dishing it up with some other infantry. The Swords are good at jamming, and with proper application can become both accurate and hard hitting.
Generally, with Stryker2 I've found that his feat provides all of the extra maneuverability I need.
I respect your reasoning on the list pairing. Most folks won't be well equipped to handle 20-24 dudes running across the field. If that's what you're going for, I would totally suggest Haley3. The hard skew to high defense will mess them up. It will have trouble into the Cygnar mirror match, so watch out for that. Cygnar happens to like seeing lotsa dudes.
I've actually been tinkering with a list for H3. It goes like:
Haley 25* -Past 0 -Future 0 -Thorn 13 -Lancer 10 -Lancer 10 Jakes 4 -Gallant 17 Rhupert/Runewood 4 Trencher Infantry 16 Sword Knights 13 Sword Knights 13
The combination between cloudwall and stupid high defense is pretty cool.
Anyway, try the knights out. I've enjoyed them plenty.
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Post by maVoo on Mar 11, 2017 3:57:10 GMT
I actually really like SK's and have run 2 units on a number of occasions. I like them with Stryker 1 & 2 primarily, but with Heavy Metal now being a thing, they are a really useful screening/jam/jack support unit for many casters.
I don't usually take the CA though. I have the models (which I think look amazing) but find them too expensive for what they do. One of the reasons SK's fit into my lists is their cheap pricetag and the CA begins to detract from that for very little gain.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Mar 11, 2017 20:15:33 GMT
So I recently had the chance to pick a max and min box for not that much, two UA blisters removed from having 24 of them. So is it a bad idea?
They are not terribly expensive, and easily slot in a list with a bunch of 'jacks for flanking purposes, off the top of my head this would play reasonably well? -Maddox: Add a Jr. Add Rhupert, have two DEF 13/15 ARM17 tough no-KD blobs that hit as hard as Iron Fang pikemen on feat turn without taking flank into account. -Stryker1: Keeps them alive and can set up strong 'mop up'-turns. -Stryker2: Positive Charge. Feat. Yolo. -Stryker3: 5d6 damage rolls on feat are pretty kek. -Haley1: Extra attacks, Temporal Barrier and AS. -Haley2: Control, TK can make flanking easier (as well as getting Ragman in etc.) Probably the ballsiest way to play her :v -Haley3: Add trencher cloud wall for fun and profit? -Jakes2: Positive charge, feat for reach and electroleap? Parry on BG means I can easily get a firefly behind the target so it doesn't screw up charge lanes. Wouldn't do it in both lists of course, but it doesn't seem that bad of a choice in the current meta, they are modestly hard to hit in melee, and if they can get a flank off they can easily rip open 'jacks (might need a boost from Raggy or positive charge/something else against Khador heavies unless you can mob them) Personally I don't want combat models without a ranged weapon so I don't want to use them, but they are actually a good frontliner. And as you said, Maddox and Haley3 makes them the insane durable cheap unit. Stryker2 is also good too. Don't expect them to be hit hard as IFP, though, for their RNG is 1 so only up to 5~6 troopers are able to concentrate the attack to one enemy model, unlike RNG 2 IFP that the whole unit can concentrate charge attack on a target. If you also count Flank then you will have less space to make the melee attack. Haley1 is not good for them, for she likes ranged attacks, not melee attacks. Feat: Blitz doesn't works well with melee attacks despite it can be used for buy the melee attacks, because melee troops can kill the target before making all the additional attacks and waste the additional attacks, and only the first one is the charge attack that is able to get the boosted damage roll. If you want extra melee attack then Haley1 is a bad choice, and you should looking for Stryker2. Stryker2's feat allows them advance 3" and make one melee attack before your turn is ends, so they can chop something in their melee range and ends their activation, then advance more to chop the another enemy unlike Feat: Blitz. Sword Knight is one of the few usable unit for Jakes2....
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Post by Havock on Mar 11, 2017 23:45:53 GMT
I ran Iron Fangs Pikemen before they were cool, people will never expect the Sword Knight Inquisition!
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Post by Havock on Mar 13, 2017 7:21:50 GMT
Delving in some list-fu right now:
Four reach 'jacks to play around with, free UA is free so why not. Screaming melee swan horde?
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Post by sideshowlucifer on Mar 14, 2017 11:50:05 GMT
I'm still a fan of sword knights, but like all infantry, they die really quickly. I wouldn't add to their cost to try and give them a negligible amount of survivability. That said, I always find myself still thinking they have that second damn attack.
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Post by anoddman on Mar 14, 2017 19:09:37 GMT
Delving in some list-fu right now: Four reach 'jacks to play around with, free UA is free so why not. Screaming melee swan horde? They aren't exactly free though. They're costing you 9 points (no free Squire or Junior) which could be spent towards, say, more jacks. I like this version a little more: War Room Army Cygnar - New Army Theme: Heavy Metal 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Major Beth Maddox - WJ: +30 - Brickhouse - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Stormclad - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Defender - PC: 16 Archduke Alain Runewood, Lord of Fharin - PC: 0 Journeyman Warcaster - PC: 0 - Charger - PC: 9 Lieutenant Allison Jakes - PC: 0 - Stormclad - PC: 18 Sword Knights - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 Sword Knights - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 THEME: Heavy Metal --- GENERATED : 03/14/2017 15:18:50 BUILD ID : 2036.17-02-03
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