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Post by bloodhawk on Jul 29, 2017 4:58:47 GMT
I can say that none of those circle casters have a threat extender except for Kromac 1 and his warpath spell. That is powerful, but it is reliant on them killing something of yours, so it can be avoided. Short of that or a black clad with hunters mark, the max threat circle can project in melee is 11 inches with a warpwolf stalker, or 12 inches with a feral warping speed. Outside of legions slowest heavies (carnivean chassis), we can easily threaten 13 or more inches as long as there is a seraph in your list. If you have proteus with abby1 then you can threaten even further as his drag is really nasty. Can you give us some insight into what you are generally running with your casters? My first blush note is that abby1, and rhyas1 don't strike me as optimal casters into circle. Not that they are necessarily bad, but you might have to work harder than if you played fyanna2, or Lylyth2/3, of thag1, for example.
Definitely don't get discouraged. Learning this game can be very difficult at times. My best recommendation is to look at each game as a learning experience and try not to worry about winning or losing. Also, if you have trouble with a faction try to get a hold of their cards to read through their casters and units. If you do this, try to think of the models as if they were your army, that way you can look at them from the opposite point of view.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Jul 29, 2017 10:13:28 GMT
Here's some trade-offs for your Legion into Circle:
Shooting range - Circle matches (I think beats) Legion's shooting output in raw damage, but Legion has longer threat on that shooting, so use that to your advantage. Melee threat - Circle beasts hit harder, but have shorter threat ranges. Add in the ubiquitous pathfinder in Legion and you can try to leverage that manouverability into a win Squishy beasts - Neither faction's warbeasts can take a punch, but if anything Circle's warbeasts are even squishier than Legion's Better themes - Circle's themes are pretty poor, while Legion has two meh themes plus the almighty Oracles. IF you're playing in Oracles, there's a good chance you're playing 16-20 points up on your circle opponent.
It's not easy, but if it was then it wouldn't be much of a game, now would it?
-und_ed
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Post by Falcen on Jul 29, 2017 21:52:55 GMT
Unfortunately, I don't have opposing lists memorized... Understandable. Ask him for them the next time you have a chance and/or let your opponent give them to you for future games. Then post them. I'm not even sure how reliable help here would be anyways, because my experience seems to be very different from everyone else's. That's *exactly* why we ask for specific lists, so we can comprehend your situation better. We can only work with what we are given. All I can say is the player is really good at staying just out of threat ranges the first turn, then hitting me the second turn, even if I don't move up at all. That sounds like you're used to be able to charge a lot of stuff already on turn 2 and maybe even turn 1...
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Post by souleater on Jul 30, 2017 16:29:47 GMT
Is it useful to also read the topics in the enemy subforums?
See what is giving them trouble and where they think their strengths and weaknesses are?
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Post by davycannonhound on Jul 31, 2017 18:20:03 GMT
Is it useful to also read the topics in the enemy subforums? See what is giving them trouble and where they think their strengths and weaknesses are? I hadn't thought of that, I'll give it a go.
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Post by davycannonhound on Jul 31, 2017 18:21:00 GMT
Unfortunately, I don't have opposing lists memorized... Understandable. Ask him for them the next time you have a chance and/or let your opponent give them to you for future games. Then post them. I'm not even sure how reliable help here would be anyways, because my experience seems to be very different from everyone else's. That's *exactly* why we ask for specific lists, so we can comprehend your situation better. We can only work with what we are given. All I can say is the player is really good at staying just out of threat ranges the first turn, then hitting me the second turn, even if I don't move up at all. That sounds like you're used to be able to charge a lot of stuff already on turn 2 and maybe even turn 1... Turn two definitely. Never turn one though. It may be better to say round 2, for less confusion.
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Post by bloodhawk on Jul 31, 2017 18:48:21 GMT
One other trick is to ask your opponent for his threat ranges when your lines are getting close to clashing. For example, on turn 2 I will always ask my opponent "what is your longest melee threat range, which model has it, and can you extend it with any spells, feats, or abilities". The, once they tell you the threat range you can mark it with a dice and know for certain you can stay safe. This is really something you should do in every game as it is very important to leverage your superior threat ranges as Legion. If by some change the opponent out threatens you, at least you know where their threat ranges are and you can decide to play around them as you see fit. Reading your previous comments it sounded like you were getting surprised, so to speak, which doesn't have to happen in a game where pre-measuring is allowed.
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Post by Falcen on Jul 31, 2017 19:26:03 GMT
Is it useful to also read the topics in the enemy subforums? See what is giving them trouble and where they think their strengths and weaknesses are? I hadn't thought of that, I'll give it a go. If you want to push this even further you can ask your Circle player to switch armies for a few training games. Switching POV gives very good lessons. For your opponent too, but the less experienced player usually gets more out of it.
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Post by davycannonhound on Aug 4, 2017 6:04:19 GMT
One other trick is to ask your opponent for his threat ranges when your lines are getting close to clashing. For example, on turn 2 I will always ask my opponent "what is your longest melee threat range, which model has it, and can you extend it with any spells, feats, or abilities". The, once they tell you the threat range you can mark it with a dice and know for certain you can stay safe. This is really something you should do in every game as it is very important to leverage your superior threat ranges as Legion. If by some change the opponent out threatens you, at least you know where their threat ranges are and you can decide to play around them as you see fit. Reading your previous comments it sounded like you were getting surprised, so to speak, which doesn't have to happen in a game where pre-measuring is allowed. Non-linear threats are what get me. So, I do get surprised by those. A lot of times, though, I just can't threaten him before he threatens me.
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on Aug 4, 2017 7:46:46 GMT
As a new player, I've found that asking specific questions like bloodhawk is suggesting is the best defence against unpleasent "gotcha" situation. Look at your opponents list before the game, study the cards, ask him about possible combos. I've found that most players are all too happy to talk about their army and how it works. Dont expect them to explain combos during matches, but before and after most people love to explain things.
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