unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Sept 11, 2017 20:57:52 GMT
I'm very happy to hear other ideas, not fussed if it mixes well with my preferred list or not.
The list style I put up here is really a take-all-comers approach that happens to play well into armour-spam, so if the thrones add to that I'm all ears. I just struggle to justify an anti-infantry piece in a list that already has such good infantry answers.
The pThaggy notion sounds interesting as well. I'd be a little more interested if it answered shooting well, which maybe it does?
Food for thought nonetheless. Only thing I have to challenge is the claim of it being the best BE in the game. I've seen storm striders and CoC dildos in action, and I play the Fulcrum. Those are really tough BEs to top.
-und_ed
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Post by yourmumrang on Nov 5, 2017 12:22:18 GMT
Ok here's a new list I have been testing around. Not entirely sure what it wants to play into as it can handle most balanced enemies.
Twins Oracles Blightbringer Seraph Throne x2 Hellion x2 Shepherd x3 (for BB healing) Feralgeist Martyr Blackfrost Shard
So one of the things it does is make Rhyas a pow17 WM making her trades more effective. I have access to a solid amount of Stationary.
Also I have found that enemies start going for the BB if I offer him over Rhyas as a trade and if you can Banishing Ward to deny things like Parasite and then can heal with a safely positioned Saeryn and Shepherds you can make him stick around a long time. Add in a Feralgeist for that random situation where they kill him with their last possible attack.
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Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on Nov 5, 2017 13:05:28 GMT
I'm very happy to hear other ideas, not fussed if it mixes well with my preferred list or not. The list style I put up here is really a take-all-comers approach that happens to play well into armour-spam, so if the thrones add to that I'm all ears. I just struggle to justify an anti-infantry piece in a list that already has such good infantry answers. The pThaggy notion sounds interesting as well. I'd be a little more interested if it answered shooting well, which maybe it does? Food for thought nonetheless. Only thing I have to challenge is the claim of it being the best BE in the game. I've seen storm striders and CoC dildos in action, and I play the Fulcrum. Those are really tough BEs to top. -und_ed Not to mention the Skorne Turtle.
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Post by yourmumrang on Mar 22, 2018 18:51:39 GMT
Bringing this back since Golab. Cos Sprinting Rhyas is queen Rhyas
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Mar 22, 2018 20:05:02 GMT
Bringing this back since Golab. Cos Sprinting Rhyas is queen Rhyas Good thinking! I think golab can change this list a lot, whilst still revolving around empowering Rhyas. Since Golab is in terrors and so are BB and serpah, I was looking at putting this in theme and came up with this: Twins (24 + 75 primal terrors) 32 Blightbringer 14 Seraph 17 golab 8 naga 15 warspears 5 warspear UA 0 hellmouth 6 hellmouth 2 1-point solos This doesn't allow her to pull a gandalf because I removed the protector, but since golab enables you to do the Rhyas and make a run for it "drowning" the table in expendable medium bases seemed like a way to go. It looks like a fun list imo. I feel the warspears are as well supported as they are ever going to be, golab can go to town as well as many heavies, lots of ranged, BB buffs a lot of models. +2 deployment is very welcome as well. The only thing I don't like is the lack if 1-point solos. Maybe Naga has to go? Edit: I put BB 34 points for some reason. At least now Iv got those solos though switching those and the naga out for a protector has an appeal to it. Having both the new smash and dash AND the gandalf at your disposal...?
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Post by copperflame on Mar 22, 2018 20:10:37 GMT
I'm interested in what the Twins can do in PT. Anamag may still be queen if she keeps her buffing potential - but would having a sprinting ninja all hyped up on blight be enough to be an option?
Then again, I already prefer to run the twins outside of theme so throwing Golab in would just be readjusting points.
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Post by yourmumrang on Mar 22, 2018 20:20:14 GMT
Out of theme I was looking at..
Twins Golab Protector Seraph Naga Throne x2 Raptors
And that's it!
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Post by jediguru on Mar 22, 2018 21:21:52 GMT
I played a couple games with BB and Golab during the CID. Rhyas can win the attrition game all by herself sometimes. I think this will be good regardless of how you run it, i.e. primal terrors or outside of theme. I think there's consideration for a single unit of Chosen in theme for a free hellmouth. Maybe something like this
(Twins 2) Saeryn & Rhyas, Talons of Everblight [+24] - Blightbringer [32] - Golab [17] - Naga Nightlurker [8] - Seraph [14] Spell Martyr [1] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Chosen of Everblight (max) [20] Hellmouth [0(6)] Hellmouth [6]
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Post by jediguru on Mar 22, 2018 21:26:15 GMT
Out of theme maybe something like this
(Twins 2) Saeryn & Rhyas, Talons of Everblight [+24] - Blightbringer [32] - Golab [17] - Seraph [14] Strider Deathstalker [4] Strider Deathstalker [4] Blighted Nyss Swordsmen (max) [15] Hellmouth [6] Ice Witches [7]
oooh, this actually kind of excites me now that I think about it a bit more. Damn, I was trying to get away and play some other locks and lists but I LOVE the twins.....
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Post by yourmumrang on Mar 22, 2018 22:02:55 GMT
Yeah it becomes very interesting out of theme. As twins don't really need the fury management they can do without the free forsaken and stuff.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Mar 23, 2018 3:40:09 GMT
My initial thought was to go back to my initial list out of theme, and just use the points from a cheaper blightbringer to add in a Hellmouth.
Of course, that seems lazy when PT looks really good for the twins, and even I’m a little skeptical I have to try fit in Golab. I’ll probably wait until we have final rules for chosen before diving into PT though.
-und_ed
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Post by novaspike on Aug 10, 2018 17:31:38 GMT
I'm going to spend fury to cast revive on this topic; I love playing the Twins and have been experimenting heavily with them in PT (plus a few other set-ups).
I subscribe to Und_ed's thoughts on a lot of what the Twins do and their set-up (in fact that's why I started playing them in PT), so that shapes my lists in a big way. One of my early iterations (before settling into PT) was an Oracles list with the blightbringer, protector, seraph, hex hunters w/CA, BFS, and support to taste. It did what I wanted for the most part, but it suffered from really needing Rhyas to do nearly all of the heavy lifting. Plus it's overall threat was really low; I loved having 12 shadowbinds on a stick, but in practice they were really hard to deliver. And despite not seeming that way, it suffered into control casters (like Haley2) who could cripple the parts of the list that I needed to do work.
From there I progressed into playing PT with blightbringer, golab, chosen, warspears, and valks (x2 hellmouth too). I played this a decent amount (and took it to a few local steamrollers), but I wasn't crazy about the battlegroup (and the warspears: they hit hard, but they're so fragile). PT is a great theme for the Twins because it does support taking the BB, gives Rhyas sprint, and lots of hardy bodies to hide behind/spring out from. It does mean sometimes that you're using the rest of the list as a delivery mechanism, but if you really want to get mileage out of Rhyas it kind of has to go that way. This plays very well into control casters, since everything in the list is faily hard to kill and can hit back pretty hard too. And with banishing ward and occultation, you can make your warmongers or chosen unable to be pushed around in any meaningful way.
For the last couple of weeks I've actually been experimenting with a PT list, but sans BB. This does run counter to the idea that the BB enables some of the best stuff Rhyas can do (and the rest of the list too; all the ogrun and hellmouths get better with the BB), but I'm starting to think that the Twins need some more support beasts (I'm not sure which is the minimum, the protector or the seraph) to really shine. My current list has a seraph, protector, golab, harrier, chosen, warmongers w/CA, valks, warchief, x2 hellmouth, and a gremlin swarm. On paper it's worse than my previous list, but I like what the mongers do, and the beast package feels better to me. Once I've practiced with it some more I'll decide which version I like better.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 10, 2018 18:27:01 GMT
Don't have revive in faction. Stop cheating. I look forward to your experiences. PT Is sort of the only theme I have the Twins in atm. I have yet to test it but again it just seems like the Casters are secondary and the list just tries to survive without them. Banishing ward is nice. Marked for death is redundant with the accuracy PT hits at. Then it's all just "Meh" from there.
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Post by novaspike on Aug 27, 2018 16:11:35 GMT
Ok, it's been a few weeks so I can go over the variations I've tried and where I'm at.
I tried a few more games with my BB-less PT list. It did ok, but over time I could see where 2 more (or less) damage would really have made/broken a turn. I did really like the Warmongers though, so I've continued to work with them.
New list: Twins -BB -Golab Full mongers w/CA Full chosen Free hellmouth Farrow Valks Gremlin swarm
So far this version has been the most solid. It doesn't have all the elements I like (could use at least one more beast, especially a seraph, and it only has 1 solo), but mongers and chosen can almost always get into combat (between banishing ward, occultation, and valks pulling grevious wound shots). It grinds like crazy too. Played it into a Kaelyssa list with 2 units of defenders, stormfall archers, elctromancers, the AFG, a manticore, and 2 harpies (with some support to taste). I shot a tentacle turn 1 to envelope the hellmouth on a hill and vs nearly all her shooting it took a whooping 1 damage. Rhyas and the chosen were able to clear a whole unit of defenders, and the warmongers killed about half of the other unit (unsupported by the BB). We ground into eachother, but I had the better position (even going second), so I ended up winning on scenario, 7 to 2. The valks almost always pay dividends, whether it be taking shots for the chosen or the twins (or the BB on occasion) and they did great in this matchup, keeping Kaelyssa from stripping Occultation from the Chosen, neutering the AFG until I could engage it.
The nice thing with a PT list is that with the BB, all ogrun can do work caster-independant. The twins bring Rhyas, and general purpose delivery tech. My usual setup after turn 1 is a group of chosen just toeing 6" ahead of the BB. Right behind them is Ryhas and the pigs (totally going to be a band name). The mongers take the left or right side depending on where I want them to go. This set-up lets the chosen/Rhyas/pigs/BB move up pretty rapidly and set the engagement line pretty far up. Once things get bogged down, Rhyas can jump over the chosen to clear things out, then sprint back behind them and let the chosen dig even deeper (either scattering to targets of opportunity, or getting enough space to make impact attacks). As an added bonus (though this has only happened twice), once rhyas clears an area in front of the chosen, searyn can arc clutch spells out front through her sister before Rhyas sprints back.
I wouldn't discount MFD either. Between Paralytic gaze and MFD, you can hit fairly high def reliably, so you can always feel safe using dragons breath from the BB (if you don't need anti tough over a large area, Golab can take care of that requirement too, making dragons breath the easy all the time choice).
Edit: I'm adding in this so I don't forget. I really wish there were a theme where you could take the BB and swordsmen. I want weaponmaster infantry (why do we only have 1 unit?) because I feel they play better into control type lists (especially if you have 2 units) and as Unded said early on, it takes pressure off of Rhyas. The ogrun do well, but they're still low enough model count that I worry dropping into hard control feats (denny2 seems like a good counter to lists like PT and AC). I could go out of theme (and have generated a few lists), but with the Twins having so few warbeast points, free theme models help round out a solid list (not always support models, but competent solos).
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 27, 2018 16:41:32 GMT
novaspikeIf you drop the Gremlin swarm and add a min unit of Rotwings you can take Gorag for free. That can get you access to psuedo weapon masters. Then you have two points for a Feralgeist which can still sit on a flag. Just not as safely without the stealth.
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