doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jul 18, 2017 11:27:46 GMT
Then what about kossite woodsmen? 19" I said "as best as I can recall." I did not recall them, in part because I don't have a consistent Khador player in meta. Still, Kossite Woodsmen are far, FAR less threatening than Cleansers. Cleansers have higher DEF (ashen veil), higher ARM, higher threat, higher RAT, higher POW, and rather than be a single shot, it's a 10" (mini-feat) spray with continuous fire.
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Post by paradox on Jul 18, 2017 11:45:28 GMT
You shut your whore mouth. What? Wouldnt You like to see ambushing assaulting cleansers or ambushing charging flamebringers? I read as TFG. My bad.
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Post by streetpizza on Jul 18, 2017 11:52:06 GMT
Ambushing cleansers would be bonkers but ambushing flame bringers!?
They would threaten 15.5" off the side of the board with impact attacks and cavalry pow 9 crit grievous weapon master charge attacks while ignoring free strikes. Broken as all hell.
In either case Feora3 would happily do an all or nothing dive move to apply incite to your caster and that would be that.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jul 18, 2017 11:56:51 GMT
Yeah, Flamebringers would be bad too. I just thought cleansers made my point better, with their absurd threat range.
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martini
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
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Post by martini on Jul 18, 2017 14:10:33 GMT
Ok, too strong, understood.
What about the rest?
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jul 18, 2017 15:51:09 GMT
Re: free choir for jack theme, sure. So long as has same condition as free solo, I don't really see a way to break this.
Re: replace 2" with advance move in Exemplar theme. Maaaaaybe, probably not. Going first, Exemplar Errants would be able to shoot into AD turn 1 (13" advance deployment, 5" advance move, 5" normal move, 10" range). Exemplar Vengers could walk and be 21" on turn 1, or run and be 29".
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Post by W0lfBane on Jul 18, 2017 17:10:56 GMT
Re: free choir for jack theme, sure. So long as has same condition as free solo, I don't really see a way to break this. Re: replace 2" with advance move in Exemplar theme. Maaaaaybe, probably not. Going first, Exemplar Errants would be able to shoot into AD turn 1 (13" advance deployment, 5" advance move, 5" normal move, 10" range). Exemplar Vengers could walk and be 21" on turn 1, or run and be 29". You forget errants have assault so they can threat 2 inches out of your opponents deployment zone. If your opponent has a 2 in extra deploy zone you could actually shoot into their deployment line barely
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jul 18, 2017 17:51:17 GMT
So I did. Yeah, that would be too much.
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Post by Swampmist on Jul 18, 2017 18:03:48 GMT
Advance move to medium-based exemplar?
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Jul 18, 2017 22:55:18 GMT
NOOOOOO! don't take away deliverer CRA, it's what makes them useable. I could be wrong, but.. If the entire unit CRAs, then you get 1 AOE 3 RNG 16 RAT 9 POW 18 shot for 13 points or you can take 2 Sunburst crews and the Arms master for 13 points and get two RNG 16 AOE 4 RAT 6 POW 15 shots with arcing fire and a re-roll for one of the attack/damage rolls or a Redeemer can get effective 3 boosted POW 14 shots for 11 points I don't think CRA is really worth it in this case. If you split the unit in half for two shots, you only get 2 AOE 3 RAT 6 POW 13 shots. It only gets worse from there pairing down into more shots The CRA is what is keeping the POW of the weapon so low I'd really rather see them lose the CRA and go back to a high pow for the main hit and a higher POW for the blast. If they had say POW 13 that would give them POW 7 blast for the squishier infantry/support, and the POW 13 could possibly dent some of the higher arm lower DEF stuff
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Jul 19, 2017 2:05:13 GMT
NOOOOOO! don't take away deliverer CRA, it's what makes them useable. I could be wrong, but.. If the entire unit CRAs, then you get 1 AOE 3 RNG 16 RAT 9 POW 18 shot for 13 points or you can take 2 Sunburst crews and the Arms master for 13 points and get two RNG 16 AOE 4 RAT 6 POW 15 shots with arcing fire and a re-roll for one of the attack/damage rolls or a Redeemer can get effective 3 boosted POW 14 shots for 11 points I don't think CRA is really worth it in this case. If you split the unit in half for two shots, you only get 2 AOE 3 RAT 6 POW 13 shots. It only gets worse from there pairing down into more shots The CRA is what is keeping the POW of the weapon so low I'd really rather see them lose the CRA and go back to a high pow for the main hit and a higher POW for the blast. If they had say POW 13 that would give them POW 7 blast for the squishier infantry/support, and the POW 13 could possibly dent some of the higher arm lower DEF stuff And I'd rather have a shot that can hit something. I posted a whole thing on this so I won't redo it, but basically...stop trying to turn them into 10-shot redeemers. it won't happen. Lets take what they actually do and make it better.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jul 19, 2017 5:29:58 GMT
[deleted]
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 19, 2017 20:17:37 GMT
What Bastions/cinterators need is the following.
Bastions: +1 arm. Lose set defense. Gain Impervious Flesh. Point cost 9/14
Cinerators: +1 arm. Gain Battle Driven. Point cost 10/15
This is of course if we go with how PP envisions the unit. Cinerators being the aggressive with Bastions being defensive.
If we were to go with what makes sense and not PP's Bass-ackwards approach,
Bastions: P+S 14 blessed weapon masters. 8 boxes, Sanguine Bond, and Vengeance. Same points as now.
Cinerators: P+S12 continuous fire weapon masters. 8 boxes, Shield Wall order, and Battle Driven. Same points as now.
PP really REALLY needs to realize that making heavy infantry 5 boxes was a mistake.
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Jul 19, 2017 20:47:58 GMT
What Bastions/cinterators need is the following. Bastions: +1 arm. Lose set defense. Gain Impervious Flesh. Point cost 9/14 Cinerators: +1 arm. Gain Battle Driven. Point cost 10/15 I can get behind +1 ARM for both. TBH, I can get behind +1 ARM for nearly all MMW infantry. I can get behind Bastions losing Set Defense, it's mostly useless I can even get behind Impervious Flesh (or Wall of Steel), But I don't think that their point cost will come down if they get it. I think that Cinerators gaining Battle Driven is a redundancy. They already have one ability that triggers on damage and I like that one better.
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 19, 2017 21:34:51 GMT
Its not redundancy, its synergy. Or at least you're getting more bang for your buck with one trigger.
PP's only real thing that they seem to have given us is a lot of ''on damage'' triggers. Vengeance and Battle Driven make sense together, and synergize too. Extra attack which is also buffed, pathfinder for the vengeance move. And armor to keep the rest of them alive.
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