25 Point Winter Guard list

Whops, thinking about points you can't actually do that, cause you can't play only 20pts of jacks.

I would play something similar:

Irusk2
3 marauders (3pts)

full WGRC+2WA (17pts)
Kovnik joe (4pts)

Mortarcrew (free)

tot. 24 pts, with 3 heavies. What do you think about it?

Also I think you can purchase a three pack of Rockets from the PP store, not much of a savings, but hey I lucked out and got my extra rockets from eBay.

I would second the Marauders and Devastators, the Marauder has come of its own since the Errata release and Deva's have always been king in my book.

While WGI have fallen behind since Rifles were allowed to take rockets now, it can be a toss up on which you prefer. The WGI gets mini feat spray, while rifles get to deign ground with their attack. I would decide based off of the tactics you would like to use. They both kinda have the same stat line so no real big factor in choosing which based off of base unit. If the WGI was more armored then that would be a reason to choose them, but both are equally squishy.

One thing I can think of is to look at Destroyer and WG Artillery Kaptain. A little more mobile then Mortar and a lot more durable. Plus when you need to hit you can boost the shot.

Just my 2cp,

-Da Muppet

2 Juggernauts is definitely something I can try - I had the old Mk2 battle box and I got the Mk3 box today - so I have 2 Juggernauts, 1 Destroyer and 1 Decimator at the moment.

I'll look into a mortar crew but I'm apprehensive to spend more on this that I need to. The overall Winter Guard unit is going to be about $80, give or take with Irusk, the rockets, Joe, and the command UA. Who knows, I might find I like artillery. I guess I've just got to get used to melee 'Jacks and indirect fire.

Please keep the good advice coming!

25pt games are a bit weird, and you need to think about how bothered you are about this being a good 25pt list or a good base to expand from. Those two might not lead to the same build.

A key things to bear in mind for 25pt (and other small games) is that with the increase in jack/beast points on casters, about half of every army has to be made of jacks/beasts. It will often be more. In Mark 3, low points value lists will often be made up mostly of jacks/beasts. This means a good 25pt list needs sufficient hitting power to deal with lots of boxes and relatively high armor.

I actually recommend the WGI over the rifle corps for that reason. Shorter range, but the larger number of POW12 shots can make a significant difference against light jacks/beasts (and even some heavies) and 2 man CRA shots at POW14 are often a good choice. Don't forget reposition to help keep them safer from retaliation. In terms of the future, buying the WGI also gives you the rocketeers which you can swap into a Rifle Corps unit when you purchase it.

Don't be afraid to send the WGI into melee! With Bear's Strength and Battle Lust they are POW12 weapon masters (with low MAT), so can do good work against armored targets.

I'd also try to get one of the Juggernauts into the list - they are the premier cheap beatsticks in the game now, and with Energiser you can out threat some other heavies.

The Mortar is a great buy in any Irusk2 list, even better when it's free. A boosted POW16 (from Fire for Effect) works wonders against almost anything. With the Destroyer and the Mortar you should be putting ten damage into a Khador jack every turn from well outside the melee threat range. Less well-armored heavies (all of them!) will suffer even more.

Based on what you have, I'd suggest:

Irusk2
-Destroyer
-Juggernaut

Max WGI
-CA
-3 Rocketeers

WG Mortar

Kovnik Joe

24 points.

It's not what I'd choose at this level. With only one warrior unit, I'd prefer Irusk1 or Butcher1. But if you want Irusk2 as your starter, I think it's fairly effective.

Next steps would be a full Rifle Corps, with the rocketeers swapped over to them, a Marauder and a field gun. The field gun is there to use the last points, and helpfully lets you get another free mortar for hot-swapping Fire for Effect. The knock down shot is also a nice RAT fixer for the mortars and Destroyer.

Irusks 1 and 2 do similar things in different ways and with different nuances. A really crucial difference is in how they scale. I think Irusk2 is by far the better of the two at large points values, as his abilities can affect more of the army and help you use lots of infantry without them tripping over one another. When you only have one real unit, that is much less of an issue.

However, just to make clear, I don't think Irusk2 is a bad choice at lower points levels and he's the better of the two at higher ones (unless you want to field Men of War - the Shocktroopers are now very viable).

Key points of difference:
MAT/RAT improving - you've spotted that Irusk1 improves attacks rolls via his feat. Irusk2 only improves rolls via Fire for Effect (single model). Winter guard have low MAT/RAT, so having something on hand to help that is valuable. Kovnik Joe can assist. However, you might sometimes want him to give Bear's Strength to help with armor cracking. Getting a MAT buff from Irusk1 is important then.

Infantry survivability - Irusk2 gives passive tough and combine with Solid Ground to prevent the knockdowns. This is great. Irusk1 gives this on feat turn only (and better), with Kovnik Joe giving some flexibility to add it in other turns too. That's a definite positive for Irusk2. Otherwise, Irusk2 can give a sort of bonus DEF via Artifice of Deviation and protection from blast damage with Solid Ground (which synergises well with tough). However, I think Artifice of Deviation is often wasted when used to provide cover - it should be used as a control tactic against the enemy (mentioned below). The DEF bonus isn't that great - in Mark2 there is no Bob and Weave order to get the WGI to untouchable levels of DEF in combination with it. Irusk1 gives Iron Flesh which is now an ARM bonus. The extra ARM also isn't great (WGI still die easily - try it on Shocktroopers now), but Iron Flesh also gives immunity to blast damage, replicating Irusk2's solid ground effect. When you're dealing with a single unit, survivability is probably close to a wash between the two.

Ranged offence - big one in Irusk2's favour. Fire for Effect on a Mortar is incredibly powerful and nothing Irusk1 does comes close.

Jack support - this is a more important issue at lower points values, given the greater proportion of your point spent on jacks. Irusk2 gives a battlegroup speed buff in Energiser. That's it. Irusk1 has superiority, which is a great spell, but only for one jack - happily you only want a couple with any Irusk. The bonus DEF isn't that helpful (but don't discount it). But the bonus SPD is great, giving a buff like Energiser for only a single jack and not out of activation. I really like the bonus MAT. Although Juggernaut chassis jacks are now MAT7 by default, they still need to boost to hit high DEF targets reliably. Although Mark3 has moved to lots of jacks/beasts, that doesn't mean high DEF has gone away. Circle (currently a powerful faction) have lots of high DEF beasts, and lots of casters are high DEF too. But any Khador jack with MAT9 is a serious melee assassination threat even to high DEF casters.

Control - Irusk1 is often better. Irusk2 can slow the enemy using his feat (remember that in Mark3 reduced speed does not prevent charging) and Artifice of Deviation. But you might also want to use Artifice to give troops cover, and it rarely does both optimally, so there's a trade off there What you can do with Artifice is cause a choke point to be rough terrain, and that's great. But Inhospitable Ground on Irusk1 is potentially a game-changing spell. Control area rough terrain gives a large space in which non-pathfinder enemy models are slowed down. At lower points values, not all lists will have pathfinder (either through limited choices, or because they can't afford the support models that grant it). That gives your entire army a relative speed buff in those situations. Khador jacks out-threat most other heavies in this situation (and many opponents want/need the charge to help crack Khador ARM), your WGI can advance, fire thier short-ranged blunderbusses and then reform 3" backwards and still be relatively safe from both charges and opponents simply running to engage.

Dealing with terrain - both have ways of doing it. Irusk2 only as a feat, Irusk1 as a battleplan, so always on. Irusk2's feat also helps in ignoring forests etc. Both are good, but different. Mark3 is meant to have more terrain on the table, so bear that in mind when deciding between them.

So overall, either can work. It's the jack-support for Irusk1 that tips it for me, but then I'm currently running a 75pt Butcher1 Winter Guard list with 6 jacks and like playing jacks generally.