|
Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 15, 2017 15:44:37 GMT
Ya know what, prior to the arcane tempest riflemen there was a debate on this whether she was or not. It seemed to never crop up again once they arrived on scene. I would go with Yes, though if there is a fluff source that says no, i will not tear my hair out nor beat my breast Illiad style. Also just so we're clear, i use pedantry as a stupid source of humor. I could give two fuqs on such inconsequential factual accuracy. Agreed though: If he's as relatively good as a GMCA or a ATR, he'll be a solid addition. Also, spray solo. Almost ubiquitously not a bad thing if its rng 8 - 10 in cygnar. I cannot tell you how much ancillary mileage i've gotten out of Arlan's spray in my day. Having Arlan spray a colossal in the back to kill models in front of it is pretty great.
|
|
Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
|
Post by Haight on Jul 15, 2017 15:46:06 GMT
Ugh. All this new shit is wanting me to play again.
Then i hit themes, and all the desire just drains the Firetruck right out of me. Blargh.
It is a really annoying dichotomy. I wish my brain would make up its damn mind.
|
|
|
Post by Aegis on Jul 15, 2017 16:12:03 GMT
So you still have your Cygnar models Haight? Or you sold them too?
|
|
Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
|
Post by Haight on Jul 15, 2017 18:31:03 GMT
No, sold them, though if in theme is the new way, light, and truth, reacquiring what i played wouldn't be hard. In reality, while i owned almost everything, i played H3, Caine2, Kara, and Stryker 1&2, Maddox and Nemo 3 in any meaningful frequency in MK3 and mostly fiddled with the rest. I could rebuild my lists inside Heavy metal and storm division for a few hundred bucks if i really, really wanted to. At the time i was not sure if i was going to continue playing, and as I had a lot of things that were going to be undergoing CID and i had NO idea how that was going to shake out, i didn't want to screw myself on the second hand market. I sold while second hand market was still getting used to the Free Rider policy (prior to that 50-60% off was the norm, that's adjusting to 30% off being the new norm as long as your stuff is in good shape, and you're patient - the trick on the second hand market is having the patience to hold onto your stuff until you find the buyer that MUST HAVE IT NOW Supply and demand! ). I also have a ton of PP points, so reacquiring what i realistically played would cost me almost nothing out of pocket if i wanted to (if i wanted to own full faction again, yeah, different story). I held onto my rhulic stuff because i find Ossrum and Madhammer REALLY fun and i love my paint jobs on them (acosta too). The cephylex stuff is commission painted / based, and i've decided to hang onto them until they ever release the fabled 3rd caster for them and demand will naturally get higher. That said if i did start playing again, lets be honest. I've flirted with every faction in the game, but I still find Cygnar the most intriguing from a design point of view. While they may shoot better than anything, in truth, the fact that cygnar has the easiest time making a badass focused list in any of the three main offensive vectors of the game if you want to is what i really like (and fair being fair, is what also draws me to ret, but ret lacks the scope and depth of mercs that cygnar does). We'll see. I'm still not sold. I hate themes with a Firetrucking passion, and that is still a huge hurdle for me. The lock and load presentation though gives me hope as opposed to last years... well... lets just say that last year's keynote and this year's are light years in difference. Also before i explain to the wife why packages of cygnar are showing up again, i want to make sure that 1) i have a playgroup i really like that will meet regularly, which i've mentioned there's complications with that elsewhere, and 2) i like the direction things are going. L&L is a step in the right direction, but "Yup, all themes all the time" is not, and i'm on the fence about CID. Battle engine CID is what i envision the best of it being. Oldwitch 2 getting her 4" extender back is the kind of shit that worries me. So.... we'll see. I'll probably keep up on Cygnar, bore the shit out of all of you to tears with my increasingly dated and amateurish strategy, and take it month by month.
|
|
|
Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 15, 2017 21:40:08 GMT
Oldwitch 2 getting her 4" extender back is the kind of shit that worries me. Trust me its really not as big as you think. Its a great ability for sure, but Khador pretty much has no arcnodes. On turns when she can (Sorta) limit (Some) of your shooting, is turns she lacks range for spells, and has much larger focus drain. Its the Grimkin that will be your worry. With Cheap Shield Guards, Arcnodes.
|
|
Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
|
Post by Haight on Jul 15, 2017 22:13:29 GMT
Big deal or not, my issue is that she didn't need it to be good, and its deletion (i thought) was a good idea in lieu of her other abilities. That it was deleted, and came back stealth style on the final model after having been removed in CID is what worries me. It's not the 4" extender itself, its proof positive that if the community gets something to change, but its near and dear to someone's heart, its coming back, despite a large body of evidence that it should go.
That's what worries me. With my relatively unique experience in working with the company, its a bad thing in my eyes. If you prove mathematically, thematically, logically that something is a bad idea, it changes, and then at release comes back, that's not good. That means impetus > logic.
It's not a deal killer, but nothing will change my mind this can possibly happen is bad due to previous relatively unique experience with exactly this. It brings up memories of "Well, XYZ says so, so that's final", which is essentially toddler logic.
|
|
|
Post by octaviusmaximus on Jul 15, 2017 22:20:50 GMT
Big deal or not, my issue is that she didn't need it to be good, and its deletion (i thought) was a good idea in lieu of her other abilities. That it was deleted, and came back stealth style on the final model after having been removed in CID is what worries me. It's not the 4" extender itself, its proof positive that if the community gets something to change, but its near and dear to someone's heart, its coming back, despite a large body of evidence that it should go. That's what worries me. With my relatively unique experience in working with the company, its a bad thing in my eyes. If you prove mathematically, thematically, logically that something is a bad idea, it changes, and then at release comes back, that's not good. That means impetus > logic. It's not a deal killer, but nothing will change my mind this can possibly happen is bad due to previous relatively unique experience with exactly this. It brings up memories of "Well, XYZ says so, so that's final", which is essentially toddler logic. I don't think old Witch is op against most factions, but she's very strong vs cygnar and other ranged factions. The +4" makes her an A to S tier caster, imo. Which is fine.
|
|
Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
|
Post by Haight on Jul 15, 2017 22:39:22 GMT
Right. Though the process by witch the 4" extender came back is how we end up, inadvertently with things like Una2 and Mad Dogs. You know, things that are totally not problems until, oh... shit... i guess this is a problem. I'm not saying her extender is that, but the process of inclusion, debate, deletion, stealth re-insertion is not promising. It indicates "Nah, put it back. Now." will trump logic even in CID.
|
|
|
Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 15, 2017 22:39:40 GMT
Big deal or not, my issue is that she didn't need it to be good She really did. I know this is Cygnar, and anything can can vaguely threaten on the range is OP, but it's seriously not that big a deal. Let's say you take the average 10 Inch gun. You still get to shoot 10 inches into even the 18 Inch CMD range with no problem (or if you walk 5 inches into it you also cancel out its disadvantage), being able to deal with almost all the army sans the ones that are 8 inches close to her. And again when shes doing the command range thing shes getting no range extender, and none of the extra abilities on her card. And if shes using any of the extra abilities, the only stuff she can then shield reasonably well are the ones within 4 inches of her. Shes more on the B range. If its B- to B+ is yet to be seen. Because I don't like it means its unbalanced Riiiight
|
|
Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
|
Post by Haight on Jul 15, 2017 22:42:07 GMT
Rather than continue debating this, see my last post. The process of its re-insertion is what worries me. And, as respectfully and jokingly as i can muster, I think you're nuts if you think she's B-. I'm not sure i agree with Octavius that she's S tier, but she's solid, solid A ground, maybe even toeing into the bottom echelon of S, imho. .... uh, i did not actually say that? Is your quote intended to be a joke, if so, its kinda not cool to do faux quotes. Again dragon, read the actual posts: its the process that worries me. The community levied that something should be removed. It came back on the sly for the final released model. THat's worrisome. It means theres a mechanism somewhere post-CID that over-rules hundreds of people playtesting and giving feedback. I'm not a fan of that trump mechanism, and i've seen it in action first hand, up close and personal. Trust me when i say its bad.
|
|
|
Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 15, 2017 22:45:33 GMT
Rather than continue debating this, see my last post. The process of its re-insertion is what worries me. And, as respectfully and jokingly as i can muster, I think you're nuts if you think she's B-. I'm not sure i agree with Octavius that she's S tier, but she's solid, solid A ground, maybe even toeing into the bottom echelon of S, imho. Based on what exactly? It was re-inserted after people complained and pointed out that using the ability only for a +2 inches bonus was kinda bleh and not worth casting. Some minor things where changed when they said they would do some more of their own internal testing like they said they would. She has a strong feat, but in general all her abilities only really pay for +1 or 2 focus a turn (Again nice but not groundbreaking) and she pretty much has to cast Windstorm all the time against ranged forces not to die. She has some nice support stuff, but it's really nothing groundbreaking.
|
|
Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
|
Post by Haight on Jul 15, 2017 22:46:05 GMT
Based on the same thing that makes you say she's B / B-. Opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 15, 2017 22:46:51 GMT
Based on the same amount that you say she's B / B-. Opinion. Like I listed my logic, you just said she is a A lister and that's final.
|
|
Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
|
Post by Haight on Jul 15, 2017 22:48:08 GMT
Well if you can ignore the, you know, actual reasons why i said it was a problem it came back, i can ignore your "logic" on why she's B- (i.e - not good). This works both ways.
|
|
|
Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 15, 2017 22:52:45 GMT
Well if you can ignore the, you know, actual reasons why i said it was a problem it came back, i can ignore your "logic" on why she's B- (i.e - not good). This works both ways. Whaat? PP always said they would review stuff internally after playtesting was over. Some community said it was too much, others said it wasn't, they lowered it, and then "The community" said it was too weak and then they put it back. Just because some of "The community" said it was too much doesn't make it ALL of it. Its not a "You can't shoot ranged" ability. Its a very limited ability in the sense that it only really protects stuff that is so far back your forced into the control range itself, and even then it only reduces the threat range by 5 inches. That is very nice, but I'm not sure how thats "Such a super duper shotdown of ranged lists" especially when if the spell goes down you can pretty much shoot down OW2 very easily. Edit: And if you looked above you would have noticed I already mentioned why PP did this and how they said they would even beforehand.
|
|