Post by spideredd on Mar 1, 2017 18:56:14 GMT
(originally posted to the Privateer Press Forums 11th August 2016)
I've just finished my first game with Durst against Siege.
It was 75 points Recon.
I won by assassination.
(Sorry if this seems a little vague, I'm getting ready to go to bed)
In the second turn, my Daughters of the Flame pinned a unit of Trenchers, although they were almost wiped out for their troubles.
In the third turn, my Avatar took a freestrike from a Hunter to charge and destroy two fresh Ironclads and my Temple Flameguard did some serious damage that Hunter.
Siege, the Trenchers and a Hunter destroyed a badly positioned Indictor, but that took Siege's feat to do it.
Not much changed in the fourth turn, Siege didn't have much left and Durst's 'jacks were out of control range, so it was mostly redeployment.
The fifth turn saw turn saw the death of a charger at the hands of the Avatar and Siege finally killing a Templar as Durst slowly moved at him. Siege tried to drown Durst in bodies, but didn't realise the Avatar was soon going to be in position. He thought that the Field Mechanics would hold the Avatar up.
The sixth turn saw the Temple Flameguard kill a Charger, and Phyrrus try to clear the Avatar out. When that didn't work, the Avatar just trampled over the gobbers whilst his gaze was active, stopping more bodies going into Durst.
In a last ditch play, Siege charged the Avatar and took his arms off, but nothing could do anything to Durst or the Vigilant. The Avatar had a lucky swing of his sword and killed Siege ouhtright.
What I learned from this is that the Avatar loves three things that Durst can provide:
Boundless Charge, Hallowed Avenger and Deceleration.
With Deceleration up, Hunters couldn't damage the Avatar because they're at dice -7 to do anything.
With Hallowed Avenger on the Avatar whilst he was next to the Temple Flameguard, that gave plenty of opportunities for the extra movement to trigger.
With Boundless Charge, I found that the free charge was far more useful to the Avatar than the movement bonus. Granted, the turn that the Avatar charged at the Ironclads he did have a full load and granted that they were really close together (they'd been positioned like that because Siege thought I wouldn't take a free strike from a hunter and would instead try and kill the hunter so they were going to charge the Avatar when he did), but the fact remains that the Avatar took down the two 'jacks capable of destroying him in one round.
The only two downsides that I can see to using the Avatar with Durst is the feat and Bulwark, but I found that Bulwark was more useful with the Vigilant and Durst being base to base than it ever could be for the Avatar.
I will say that I feated badly because I popped the feat, forgot to move Durst, and then ran an Indictor and a Templar into what was left of Siege's army and out of control range of Durst, hence the Repositioning in turn four.
I'll also say that I found myself strapped for focus in many turns. A Wrack or two is a must.
Durst also doesn't need a Revenger, but he does like Arc Nodes for throwing Boundless Charge around. I think he'd like a Guardian instead.
I'm going to improve on my list and my tactics and will keep trying the Avatar with as many casters as I can.
Lists:
My list:
-28 Durst
9 Vigilant
15 Templar
15 Indictor
10 Revenger
20 Avatar of Menoth
4 Choir (min)
11 Temple Flameguard (max)
4 Officer and Standard.
5 Phyrrus
10 Daughters of the Flame
Siege's List
Siege
Hunter
Sentinel
Ironclad
Ironclad
Charger
Charger
Rienholdt
Journeyman Warcaster
Hunter
Trenchers (max)
Mechanics
Arlan Strangeways
Some Questions/suggestions
LordRaif:
Did you feel that the min Choir was sufficient to run with 5 'Jacks?
Actually yes for this game.
The Vigilant sat there with ARM23 (15 to armour piercing) and didn't need it.
I found that it was CMD 6 from the choir was a more limiting factor than quantity because I had the Avatar on one flank, a long way away from the Indictor and Templar. The Revenger was mostly ignored because the Avatar was a much bigger threat. I think a second min choir would have given me greater flexibility though, but I couldn't afford it.
TheDukeofPotato:
I would suggest using Flamebringers with Durst. His feat will protect infantry but allowing direct hits to be shrugged to a warjack that is in base to base with them. A normal infantry unit will have to move to the enemy, and attack then stand there. It will be difficult to get more than 2 models in base with a jack in this scenario. It is also likely that the jack will mostly waste his turn in this case getting into base with the infantry. However, with Flamebringers the jack can activate, do his job and stand there. Then the daughters can do their job, sidestep and reposition and end all in base to base with jacks to get full benefit from Bastion of Faith.
An interesting idea. I have yet to try either cavalry unit and hadn't considered them for Durst because of his 12" control range. I think that this'll be worth a try when I get around to buying the Flamebringers, but I think that it'll take practice because I am unused to things moving as fast as they do.
I've just finished my first game with Durst against Siege.
It was 75 points Recon.
I won by assassination.
(Sorry if this seems a little vague, I'm getting ready to go to bed)
In the second turn, my Daughters of the Flame pinned a unit of Trenchers, although they were almost wiped out for their troubles.
In the third turn, my Avatar took a freestrike from a Hunter to charge and destroy two fresh Ironclads and my Temple Flameguard did some serious damage that Hunter.
Siege, the Trenchers and a Hunter destroyed a badly positioned Indictor, but that took Siege's feat to do it.
Not much changed in the fourth turn, Siege didn't have much left and Durst's 'jacks were out of control range, so it was mostly redeployment.
The fifth turn saw turn saw the death of a charger at the hands of the Avatar and Siege finally killing a Templar as Durst slowly moved at him. Siege tried to drown Durst in bodies, but didn't realise the Avatar was soon going to be in position. He thought that the Field Mechanics would hold the Avatar up.
The sixth turn saw the Temple Flameguard kill a Charger, and Phyrrus try to clear the Avatar out. When that didn't work, the Avatar just trampled over the gobbers whilst his gaze was active, stopping more bodies going into Durst.
In a last ditch play, Siege charged the Avatar and took his arms off, but nothing could do anything to Durst or the Vigilant. The Avatar had a lucky swing of his sword and killed Siege ouhtright.
What I learned from this is that the Avatar loves three things that Durst can provide:
Boundless Charge, Hallowed Avenger and Deceleration.
With Deceleration up, Hunters couldn't damage the Avatar because they're at dice -7 to do anything.
With Hallowed Avenger on the Avatar whilst he was next to the Temple Flameguard, that gave plenty of opportunities for the extra movement to trigger.
With Boundless Charge, I found that the free charge was far more useful to the Avatar than the movement bonus. Granted, the turn that the Avatar charged at the Ironclads he did have a full load and granted that they were really close together (they'd been positioned like that because Siege thought I wouldn't take a free strike from a hunter and would instead try and kill the hunter so they were going to charge the Avatar when he did), but the fact remains that the Avatar took down the two 'jacks capable of destroying him in one round.
The only two downsides that I can see to using the Avatar with Durst is the feat and Bulwark, but I found that Bulwark was more useful with the Vigilant and Durst being base to base than it ever could be for the Avatar.
I will say that I feated badly because I popped the feat, forgot to move Durst, and then ran an Indictor and a Templar into what was left of Siege's army and out of control range of Durst, hence the Repositioning in turn four.
I'll also say that I found myself strapped for focus in many turns. A Wrack or two is a must.
Durst also doesn't need a Revenger, but he does like Arc Nodes for throwing Boundless Charge around. I think he'd like a Guardian instead.
I'm going to improve on my list and my tactics and will keep trying the Avatar with as many casters as I can.
Lists:
My list:
-28 Durst
9 Vigilant
15 Templar
15 Indictor
10 Revenger
20 Avatar of Menoth
4 Choir (min)
11 Temple Flameguard (max)
4 Officer and Standard.
5 Phyrrus
10 Daughters of the Flame
Siege's List
Siege
Hunter
Sentinel
Ironclad
Ironclad
Charger
Charger
Rienholdt
Journeyman Warcaster
Hunter
Trenchers (max)
Mechanics
Arlan Strangeways
Some Questions/suggestions
LordRaif:
Did you feel that the min Choir was sufficient to run with 5 'Jacks?
Actually yes for this game.
The Vigilant sat there with ARM23 (15 to armour piercing) and didn't need it.
I found that it was CMD 6 from the choir was a more limiting factor than quantity because I had the Avatar on one flank, a long way away from the Indictor and Templar. The Revenger was mostly ignored because the Avatar was a much bigger threat. I think a second min choir would have given me greater flexibility though, but I couldn't afford it.
TheDukeofPotato:
I would suggest using Flamebringers with Durst. His feat will protect infantry but allowing direct hits to be shrugged to a warjack that is in base to base with them. A normal infantry unit will have to move to the enemy, and attack then stand there. It will be difficult to get more than 2 models in base with a jack in this scenario. It is also likely that the jack will mostly waste his turn in this case getting into base with the infantry. However, with Flamebringers the jack can activate, do his job and stand there. Then the daughters can do their job, sidestep and reposition and end all in base to base with jacks to get full benefit from Bastion of Faith.
An interesting idea. I have yet to try either cavalry unit and hadn't considered them for Durst because of his 12" control range. I think that this'll be worth a try when I get around to buying the Flamebringers, but I think that it'll take practice because I am unused to things moving as fast as they do.