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Post by Manathern on Jul 2, 2017 1:17:13 GMT
Hello all!
I have been playing Malekus quite a bit lately with great and bad result. Either I win or give a really nasty fight to my opponent that does feel a bit like a victory in defea, or I get totaly annihilated. (Terminus and a Bane list handed me my ass in a game this week, REAL bad) I think it might be due to bad positioning and over-reliance on Malekus feat and the volume of attack I want to get out at feat turn (a lot of flame thrower in there).
I was wondering how other were playing him and with what kind of list. What do you think make him work. Do you play him in theme? I know the Revelator will make Malekus into a monster. But since it's not out yet let's remove this option from the discussion.
Here is what I generally bring to the table with him:
Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points (Malekus 1) Malekus, the Burning Truth [+30] - Eye of Truth [20] - Hand of Judgment [18] - Repenter [8] - Vanquisher [17]
Deliverer Arms Master [3] Taryn di la Rovissi, Llaelese Gun Mage [5] Vassal of Menoth [3] Wrack [1] Wrack [1]
Deliverer Sunburst Crew [5] Deliverer Sunburst Crew [5] Flameguard Cleansers (max) [15] - Flameguard Cleanser Officer [4]
In this list, Taryn is there to clean line of sight and enemy solo. The rest is pretty much all feat oriented. Deliverers do a LOT of work. I also used 2 or 3 Repenters in the past with him and the Thorn Gun Mages.
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 2, 2017 16:08:13 GMT
If you must try to actually make Malekus work(he really doesn't) then the list you have is about as good as you can get. Maximize fire and hope you kill the enemy with the feat, because if you don't you have no further staying power.
But even when the Revelator comes out, Malekus isn't going to be anything more than a C+ caster. He's just not well designed and focused, he's a random hodgepodge of individually good abilities that don't quite mesh into something amazing. He's one of our few casters who needs to go back into CID.
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Post by chillychinaman on Jul 2, 2017 16:36:28 GMT
If you must try to actually make Malekus work(he really doesn't) then the list you have is about as good as you can get. Maximize fire and hope you kill the enemy with the feat, because if you don't you have no further staying power. But even when the Revelator comes out, Malekus isn't going to be anything more than a C+ caster. He's just not well designed and focused, he's a random hodgepodge of individually good abilities that don't quite mesh into something amazing. He's one of our few casters who needs to go back into CID. Just wondering greytemplar, if you worked on a CID for PP, in what direction would you take Malekus? I agree that Malekus, along with my other battlebox caster Kryssa, are a hodgepodge of decent abilities to don't combine into a particularly strong caster. While I have plenty of ideas for Kryssa, besides giving him Broadside, I don't really know what to do with Malekus. As for the OP, I've considered running a gunline of Cleansers+Reckoner with perhaps a Repenter or two to clear the first wave of enemies. Then I take Vengers as a second wave or flank unit, taking ignite for a potential PS18 cavalry charge.
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 2, 2017 17:05:24 GMT
Well first off, Open Fire needs to be cost 1. With it being limited to once per jack per turn, cost 2 is too high. Or it needs to be not limited to once per jack.
It's basically a compromise between Broadsides and Jackhammer, and is worse than either of them.
I would also like to see him lose Scourge, it's not really thematic for Protectorate anyway, and gain a new spell that actually buffed fire. Something like,
Kindling: Cost 2 Range 6 Off No Upkeep No: Target friendly faction model/units weapons with :Damage type Fire: gain an additional die on attack rolls. Discard the lowest die from each roll. Kindling lasts for 1 turn.
He needs an accuracy boost for fire damage to synergize with his feat and cover up the accuracy problems that most of our guns have. This would actually give him a cool schtick outside of the feat, as currently he's basically a one turn show and if it doesn't pan out you're screwed. If he had a spell like this, you could actually run a viable gunline with him even without the feat since he would buff the accuracy of our fire guns. It would also synergize with Open Fire since it would work on out of activation attacks.
Those two changes I think would make Malakus a very interesting gunline caster in a way that fits the fluff of him being all fire and brimstone(something that Protectorate is sorely lacking, fluff and rules aligning to make stuff interesting). Right now he's trying to be a gunline caster, but he just can't fully deliver on the promise.
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Post by chillychinaman on Jul 2, 2017 17:47:35 GMT
So, buff Open Fire in some fashion, Replace Scourge with a fire buff, and Hand of Fate for Fire-type guns? And just to compare Broadside and Jackhammer to Open Fire:
Broadside =range =once per activation +3 cost for entire battlegroup
Jackhammer -6" range +1 cost +no limit
At this point, I think it'd be easier to just replace Open Fire with Broadside and Kindling with Guided Fire? You can cast two DUR: TURN abilities on yourself right? Would that be too powerful?
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jul 2, 2017 19:05:42 GMT
I honestly enjoy Malekus, and feel he's one of the better battlebox casters. However, he doesn't allow much flexibility, as you really want to stack him with as much fire as possible. As such, I prefer to spam as many sprays as possible (Cleansers & Repenters), with Thorn Gun Mages providing high RAT if needed, and Eye of Truth anchoring the list.
With Malekus' feat, and the bulk of the list being RAT5, it is a very hit-or-miss plan. With the volume of attacks you can make on feat turn, it is quite possible to completely melt an opposing list. However, with the low RAT, and most everything being POW12, if the dice betray you then you are seriously screwed. That said, I find it quite entertaining, which is ultimately the goal.
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Malekus
Jul 3, 2017 1:18:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by k0rhil on Jul 3, 2017 1:18:32 GMT
The burning truth was the warcaster that lured me into protectorate and since the start of mk3 i have used him 10 times in tournament play with a record of 4 wins and 6 losses. Wins against barnabas, xerxis 1 and 2, and Maddox and losses to vlad 1 and 2, Denny 1, kryssa, xekaar, and baldur 1 I believe but it was my first mk3 tournament so my memory is a bit cloudy. He was usually paired with kreoss 1 as our preferred format is champions however I also paired him with reznik 1. Even though the losses outweighed the wins I really enjoy his play style and usually run him with a reckoner and since eye of truth has been released he's been a mainstay recently. They have been joined by a castigator but previously used a vanquisher, templar,crusader,redeemers, and repenters. A unit of cleansers with ca are a great threat especially during feat and with eye of truth nearby things can get pretty crazy I also use 2 units of cinerators this choice is often debated by my gaming group. From my point of view they are fire immune weapon master with continuous fire as the cherry on top. Rounding out this list is our usual support choir,wrack,mechanik. Personally the only models I haven't tried that I would like to is the hand of judgement and the revelator not sure if either will end up making the cut. All in all I think he's a solid caster and list building is best done to optimize feat if I have any complaints it's that he can be hard countered by a number of casters like kallus 2, horgle 2, etc. but thankfully none of those casters are mainstays in our meta.
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 3, 2017 4:13:17 GMT
So, buff Open Fire in some fashion, Replace Scourge with a fire buff, and Hand of Fate for Fire-type guns? And just to compare Broadside and Jackhammer to Open Fire: Broadside =range =once per activation +3 cost for entire battlegroup Jackhammer -6" range +1 cost +no limit At this point, I think it'd be easier to just replace Open Fire with Broadside and Kindling with Guided Fire? You can cast two DUR: TURN abilities on yourself right? Would that be too powerful? Nah, I at least want him to have some uniqueness to him. Which is something that Protectorate is also lacking. Broadside and Guided fire would certainly be a fix as well, but it would still leave him feeling a bit flavorless. Kinda like what they did with Feora3, strong but lacking in flavor. The Open Fire change, and my proposed Kindling spell, would be exactly what he needs. Being a little more focused in terms of what he does, while also packing good Protectorate fire flavor. Kindling would be a cool thematic spell because you could buff your fire guns specifically. It wouldn't do anything for non-fire type guns, which is synergistic with his feat, but also means he has something to offer outside of the feat. He can give Cleansers a to hit buff on demand, or give it to a Revelator, etc... And the Open Fire change to cost 1 OR being no longer limited to once per turn also means he has a little more support to offer.
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Post by Arch4ngel on Jul 3, 2017 5:41:33 GMT
I've been playing Malekus a lot lately.
I was trying to make a list with Durst that used Indictors, because he loves arm21 jacks, and because a pair of them placed about 10" apart creates a HUGE bubble of spell denial that can really mess up some game plans.
Long story short, I have yet to figure out how to make it work with Durst. I'm pretty sure that Creator's Might with him is a trap. But while I was tinkering, I put Malekus at the helm of the same list, and I got magic:
It's probably not "THE BEST PROTECTORATE LIST IN THE WORLD," and SR2017 is likely to be pretty rough on it, but it FEELS good. It's almost like mk2 Protectorate. You've got beefy jacks, out-of-activation attacks, spell denial - that doesn't require you to forego Passage - and a very credible assassination vector...
The Repenters are your trade pieces, and they force the opponent to come into you, because sitting back and burning people is fine for you. The Indictors set up in "Castle" formation, rendering Malekus impervious to spell vectors. The Vanquisher and Eye look for targets of opportunity together, while the latter gives the former blessed guns, and late-game, once the lines have closed, you can commit the Indictors and look for big feat/assassination opportunities.
Importantly, it gives many Retribution lists fits.
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 3, 2017 5:58:59 GMT
The Indictors confuse me in that list... Even more than a typical list that tries to use Indictors...
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Post by Arch4ngel on Jul 3, 2017 6:07:21 GMT
I'm not one of those people that is omniscient enough to know how good a model is before putting it on the table. I'm experimenting with Indictors - especially paired Indictors because:
* arm21 is good * mat 7 is good (open fire works on melee attacks...) * being untargetable by BOTH spells and non-magical ranged attacks is good * denying animi/spell channeling anywhere in the same postal code as my warcaster is good
This list was an accidental discovery as part of those experiments, and it's working for me.
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Post by paradox on Jul 3, 2017 13:13:23 GMT
Durst Creator's Wrath Theme: The Creator's Might
Anson Durst, Rock of the Faith - WJ: +28 - Hierophant - PC: 0 - Vigilant - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Devout - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Dervish - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Dervish - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 3) - Dervish - PC: 7 - Dervish - PC: 7 - Dervish - PC: 7 - Dervish - PC: 7 - Dervish - PC: 7 - Crusader - PC: 10 - Crusader - PC: 10
Wrack (The Creator's Might) - 3 Wracks: 0 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3 Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6
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Post by daersalon on Jul 3, 2017 14:53:06 GMT
Dervish Spam with Durst is indeed a joy to see, Paradox, but what does it have to do with the Piemaster?
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Malekus
Jul 3, 2017 14:55:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by macdaddy on Jul 3, 2017 14:55:54 GMT
Durst Creator's Wrath Theme: The Creator's Might Anson Durst, Rock of the Faith - WJ: +28 - Hierophant - PC: 0 - Vigilant - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Devout - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Dervish - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Dervish - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 3) - Dervish - PC: 7 - Dervish - PC: 7 - Dervish - PC: 7 - Dervish - PC: 7 - Dervish - PC: 7 - Crusader - PC: 10 - Crusader - PC: 10 Wrack (The Creator's Might) - 3 Wracks: 0 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3 Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6 What about fitting in some devouts for some jacks that have high def and better arm? Reckoners with ashen veil can also help set up some Def bonuses for dervishes too (at least in melee).
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Malekus
Jul 3, 2017 14:58:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by paradox on Jul 3, 2017 14:58:22 GMT
Dervish Spam with Durst is indeed a joy to see, Paradox, but what does it have to do with the Piemaster? The comment above about Durst in CM
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