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Post by skathrex on Jul 21, 2017 10:19:27 GMT
Nice Battlereport. Shows 1 of the strength of Strakov. He is never out of the game.
Sadly I would have loved to see more of the Groaler as I am still not sold on it, but well gonna test it myself.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 21, 2017 11:40:55 GMT
Nice Battlereport. Shows 1 of the strength of Strakov. He is never out of the game. Sadly I would have loved to see more of the Groaler as I am still not sold on it, but well gonna test it myself. What if I told you that I once used a Grolar to kill Fyanna2 under her feat turn with 3 Fury?
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 21, 2017 11:41:07 GMT
Nice Battlereport. Shows 1 of the strength of Strakov. He is never out of the game. Sadly I would have loved to see more of the Groaler as I am still not sold on it, but well gonna test it myself. What if I told you that I once used a Grolar to kill Fyanna2 under her feat turn with 3 Fury?
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Jul 22, 2017 11:43:15 GMT
Great job as usual! I'm not sure what the difference is between the games you play and the ones I do though? Maybe I am not reading your reports correctly, or you write them with an aide of suspense, but it often feels like you are getting pretty beat up and then all of a sudden you win! In my games when I start to get beat up, it's just an inevitable grind downward.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 22, 2017 13:48:05 GMT
Great job as usual! I'm not sure what the difference is between the games you play and the ones I do though? Maybe I am not reading your reports correctly, or you write them with an aide of suspense, but it often feels like you are getting pretty beat up and then all of a sudden you win! In my games when I start to get beat up, it's just an inevitable grind downward. It's because I'm a headhunter by nature and I always gun for the assassination over playing scenario or attrition. At the start of the match I realised I couldn't win on scenario. I had no units to control either zone. In addition I had no way to win in attrition either. Sentinels with access to Scything touch mean dead warjacks. Strakhov doesn't have any defensive tech, like many of our casters. So I basically had no choice but to go for the head. My opponent had to move Elara up because he couldn't hot swap Scything touch so he had to put it on Elara herself. But even out of feat, an overrunning Juggernaut can threat 16 inches.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Jul 22, 2017 19:10:31 GMT
Interesting how you analyzed your position from the get go. I recently played a friend of mine who plays Menoth. He has a Jack Heavy Amon list and a Sevy2 list. I usually play my Vlad1 Jaws list into Menoth, but my second list is a Sorscha1 list that has gone through multiple revisions. Even though I felt handicapped into both lists with S1, I just wanted to play it. He had Sev2, which if you don't know, has access to spells like ashes to ashes, and his FEAT does a POW12 boostable damage to 1d3 + 2 warrior models within his 16" control zone. Again, I felt that I was disadvantaged because of his ability to easily remove at least 3 of my high value solos at will, and threaten others more easily with Ashes to Ashes. I ran this;
War Room Army
Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army
Kommander Sorscha - WJ: +29 - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator - PC: 4 - Behemoth - PC: 25 (Battlegroup Points Used: 25) - Marauder - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4)
Winter Guard Gun Carriage - PC: 17
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios - PC: 7 Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 4 Alten Ashley - PC: 6 Kell Bailoch - PC: 5
Widowmaker Scouts - Leader & 3 Grunts: 8 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyana & Master Holt: 8
Some of my big errors, I lost the game btw, were that I was conflicted over what I was playing for, scenario/attrition/assassination. I really had a bad position to attrition, but I could have made a better game of it by either going scenario or assassination instead of doing both half-assed. In particular for this game, I was so concerned with things being in range of his FEAT etc, that I basically took myself out of the game. Sorscha was never where I really needed her and other things were just too far to be really effective.
I guess what I am reading from your reports is a more aggressive approach where by, while yes you may lose models, you ultimately by proximity, continue to give yourself a chance to get done what needs to be done. I will have to work on thins more.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 22, 2017 21:49:43 GMT
Ah no theme? Hiss hiss!
Now, I don't play much into menoth. South Wales doesn't really have any major menoth players. But Sevy2 is one of the better casters.
Now your list doesn't seem set out for major attrition, but you have the right kind of units for scenario. However Sevy2 is an old man armoured in tissue paper. Granted his feat will at least kill 3 solos. More than likely 4 because averages, however because you should always assume that you will roll low and your opponent will roll high, assume that 5 will die.
So what can ye do? Well you could make it so that you bait him. Maybe make it so that he can feat and maybe nab Eiryss (Eiryss makes the majority of warmachine players edgy, she scares the crap out of me.) but he can't grab the other solos. If you put him on the back foot he might feat a turn earlier than planned.
Or drop Bombards on his head, 2 should do it.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Jul 23, 2017 0:01:53 GMT
Thanks for the thoughts! I agree with you on your thoughts for that matchup. I think what I took from reviewing my game and then your reports was that I am playing way to cautiously with my stuff, especially my warcaster. If I had been more aggressive, safe but aggressive, I would have been threatening more and getting more accomplished and setting up an assassination or pushed him out of position in order to win scenario. In any event thanks for the inspiration. Now write more reports!!!
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 23, 2017 8:28:06 GMT
Well I only really play once a week, and I don't tourney that often due to work.
But yes, be more aggressive! (But not too aggressive) with Sorscha especially, she always has that assassination threat available. You could use it to force your opponent back a little.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 26, 2017 22:42:11 GMT
So I got in another 2 games tonight. Both against Legion. I haven't played Strakhov2 properly since the Welsh Masters, apart from a silly Man o War list a while back, so it was time to put him back where he belongs. In the Legion of Steel! Strakhov2 -Destroyer -Destroyer Markov Iron Fang Kovnik Black Dragons -UA Iron Fang Pikemen -UA Uhlans Great Bears vs Lylyth, Reckoning of Everblight - WB: +29 - Succubus - PC: 4 - Angelius - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Typhon - PC: 24 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Ravagore - PC: 19 - Nephilim Bolt Thrower - PC: 11 The Forsaken - PC: 4 The Forsaken - PC: 4 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Spell Martyr - PC: 1 Blighted Nyss Raptors - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18 Yes, I put more care into my opponent's list than my own. I won the roll and went second. Because I wanted to get up into the grill, I have no guns so a turn of shooting means nothing to me. I hate that house. Not much goes on however, Lylyth puts up her Battle Host spell so everything moves quickly and he just runs up. He gets the Ravagore to put out a Scather Template, but it goes off to the right table edge. I also do a lot of running. Strakhov puts IR on the Black Dragons and Quicken on the IFP, he goes Invisbros and walks up and feats. Both units mini-feat and run, and everything else runs. My opponent has a think over his options, but decides that he can't kill Strakhov. But he feats in return. Lylyth stationaries Markov and shoots a Uhlan and a regular pike, freezing the first and killing the latter, he then doesn't reposition. Typhon freezes a load of pikemen and Uhlans, but doesn't kill many. The RAptors kill 2 bears, freeze the last and freezes the Kovnik. The Ravagore puts a template on the front 5 black dragons, and the Angelius moves to be annoying. Unfortunately, my opponent moved his Angelius too far over, the 5 Black Dragons are also free to charge Lylyth. Strakhov last stands them and 5 charge. Two get rid of rid of his focus and the last 3 seal the deal. Khador Victory!
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 26, 2017 23:00:40 GMT
And then we played again, this time both of us using our second lists. Butcher3 -War Dog -Ruin -Juggernaut -Devastator Kovnik Joe Widowmaker Marksman Full WGI Full WGRC Mortar Crew Mortar Crew Field Gun vs Absylonia, Daughter of Everblight - WB: +28 - Succubus - PC: 0 - Angelius - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Carnivean - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Naga Nightlurker - PC: 8 - Neraph - PC: 12 - Proteus - PC: 19 - Scythean - PC: 18 - Shredder - PC: 4 - Shredder - PC: 4 The Forsaken - PC: 0 The Forsaken - PC: 0 Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion - PC: 0 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Spell Martyr - PC: 1 So on we duel again! I also win the roll off so I go second again. Bracer goes on Proteus, the warbeasts go base to base. Otherwise everything runs up. The Angel hides behind the house. Everything runs up for me too. I measure the maximum threat of his beasts, move up the marksman and shoot three boxes off Proteus. Then Ruin charges him, hitting the back of the marksman and then ending the charge. Now only Proteus may reach him, and he can't pull him towards his claws. Otherwise everything moves up. The clam gets into the zone, Silence of Death goes onto Ruin, and all the WG move into position. Maybe I should use flash more often, it came out better. His things move up. The Angel charges the Clam and takes out a good 12 boxes of his cortex, so no focus for him. The Carnivean and the Naga shoot Ruin, but he doesn't get a critical shadowbind off the carni spiny growths. Otherwise things move up, the neraph moves in front of Ruin to be annoying. I umm and arr for a while, giving both my available jacks 2. Eventually I get the Rifle Corps to shoot into the DEF 18 Neraph. 2 Five man CRAs and one lucky rocket bring him down to 3 boxes. One unlucky 4 man CRA from the Infantry miss, the others shoot ineffectively into the Carnivean. However the Neraph has lost his mind and body, so a Silence of Death'd Ruin knocks Bracer off Proteus and then kills him, dealing an effective hit to the Carni and also knocking his Spiny Growth off. The Juggernaut finishes the job. Butcher activates and charges the Neraph. The dog kills him first. Butcher then feats and impends the Scythean into melee range and kills him, leaving Butcher on 1 focus. Due to Fury issues, my opponent can't leech from the Naga or Angelius. The Naga is okay, but the Angel frenzies. He goes hell for broke with the assassination. Due to not leaving a WG next to Butcher, he gets a shadow bind off from the naga. This allows the Succbus, Hellion and a forsaken to do some damage. A massive spike from a Hex Bolt from Abby brings Butcher to a few boxes, and the next one makes him tough. He is out of options, he has no more ranged attacks to put into Butcher, I survive via tough. Embrassed, Butcher shakes shadowbind gets up and kills Abby in return. A second Khador Victory!
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Jul 26, 2017 23:25:07 GMT
AWESOME and well done! Ahhhh, I need a cigarette... Ok, so thanks for the reports, obviously WGK is a great theme, but I cannot bring myself to play it yet. Butcher3 is one caster that I know I play well, and often have a good chance of winning with him, but I just prefer to play other casters and lose. One of these days maybe I'll dust off my WG and Butcher as well, for now I am still obsessively playing Sorscha1 and mixing in Vlads to taste. Hopefully I will get off my ass soon and start posting my own inferior reports.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 26, 2017 23:49:30 GMT
Well it was nice to take some new lists.
I'm pretty much maxed out on the WG I own, but Im not sure if I like all the artillery.
Then again in that last game, most of the WG did bugger all. But I sure miss boosted attack rolls on Winter Guard. Poor Joe.
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Post by skathrex on Jul 27, 2017 9:14:38 GMT
Some feedback for the Legion player. He should work on his Thread ranges. Getting the Alpha from khador heavys is just not something Legion can afford. Ruin happens but not Ruin and Jugger at the same time. Same with your first game, but I guess that was just a forgotten reposition.
As to your plays, I know we all like to go in with the Butcher, but I think you got gready there and almost lost the game because of it. Just sit back another turn with Butcher so he can Sacpawn shots. You are under no pressure what so ever. Even if he takes out both your jacks you can then kill whatever killed them and be still a mile ahead on Attrition.
On the lists, I think you Butcher list is a bit to much on the WG side. Butcher likes another heavy for more frontline presence and grinding/baiting your opponent.
But in general you won both games, so hard to add anything.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 27, 2017 9:55:52 GMT
Yeah, I think he forgot about Ruin and dispel, which means that the Carnivean wasn't stacking Bracer with Spiny Growth. It was getting late so I went all in. I could have been in a position where the Scythean was still alive but his other heavies were dead but Butcher would have been in a more survivable position. Too be fair, he rolled a 17 for damage on the hexbolt. Which is what made me tough in the end.
But these things happen.
I also agree with the WG being too heavy, but I literally made and brought a list in 10 minutes because I was running behind. (And I still had to go back home because I left both my Black Dragons and my WGI by the side of my bed)
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