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Post by welshhoppo on Jun 27, 2017 22:52:50 GMT
Post match blues!
I am not a fan of the Man-o-War and for the entirety of the game I was annoyed that whatever this list was doing, the Legion of Steel was going to do better.
But biggest issue was a lack of attacks. Man o War hit hard when they hit, but a squad has only half the attacks of a regular unit, and even with MAT7, I was missing a whole load of 7's to hit his solos. Despite having a few hits on his Hellions, DEF14 caused them to live a turn longer than they should have. In addition, the BFS, Angels and his other models were hard to hit without a hitting buff. Last stand doesn't count because I don't want to pay premium for Man-o-War when I have to kill them off. And despite loads of speed buffs, I could barely get a turn of shield wall to really stack the armour high. They either needed to charge for the damage, or were too far away to be base to base and couldn't get the movement needed.
You may have noticed that I didn't take about the Forge Seers that often. Mostly because all they did was empower. It's great, Strakhov loves being a selfish git with his focus.
All in all, it was a okay victory. Next up was Irusk2!
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Jun 28, 2017 11:29:40 GMT
I had forgotten that you did reps here. Thankfully I saw your link in your signature! Nice game, MOW are good but need just a bit of something else as I think you are alluding too. With regard to the assault shot, I have always been confused about how those work? I thought for some probably wrong reason that the missed shots don't hit anyone else.
edit: ummm so I read the assault rules again and again, so it looks like the assault shot not only could hit another person, if it misses, but it also suffers the target in melee penalty I guess. Question then; if the assaulting model ends its charge in melee with its assault target, does the target then get the target in melee def bonus?
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wags
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by wags on Jun 28, 2017 18:00:33 GMT
If I'm remembering correctly, the assault target will not get the target in melee bonus if the origin of the attack is also in melee with it.
I'm with Growl, I like MoW but when I theory craft it just seems like they are missing something. Probably the theme list. Any two units of MoW with the kovniks is a significant amount of army points to be dumped into only about 12 attacks. A theme list and putting the kovniks at free would help.
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Post by Cryptix on Jun 28, 2017 19:46:43 GMT
I think Bombadiers were supposed to be the anti-infantry MOW but AOE3 falls short these days. Of course, I'm that evil mofo that puts shatter storm on Bombadiers for the double tap.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jun 28, 2017 22:09:11 GMT
Yeah, the assault shot doesn't get the target in melee penalty. But the car I had cover from the wall, and the Angel is just def14 basic. The poor RAT5 Shocktroopers aren't hitting them that easily.
I agree that Mcboombooms are supposed to be the anti infantry man o wars. But pow7 blasts aren't hurting anyone.
And the points to model ratio really sucks. For the same points of 10 Shocktroopers with kovniks you can get double the amount of IFP. All the buffs effect them just as well, and a charging IFP will kill the man o war on a charge with average dice. Whilst the Shocktroopers, will survive one. They won't survive 2.
Making assault better would go a long way to helping the Shocktroopers. The demo corps need 2 attacks basic, or something to make them hit much harder because they are worse to Ulhans in every way.
And the bombardiers just need something.
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Post by Cryptix on Jun 29, 2017 0:22:55 GMT
I've run them as POW 13 high explosive and they're bretty gud. Once you realize most chaff die to pow 10s you stop worrying. Now if only Harkevich got Guided Fire/Fire Group/Snipe instead of Mobility.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jun 29, 2017 9:27:57 GMT
Well I still had two more battles on monday, but my memory of them is going fuzzy because I've been working since then. But it was basically the same list, except this time it was with Irusk2 and 3 Juggernauts.
Now it might seem like an odd thing to run 3 Juggernauts with Irusk2, but my idea was too bully everything with a wall of armour. And get use out of energiser. I mean if B3 can do it then he can too!
This was against Lylyth2.
Lylyth, Shadow of Everblight - WB: +28 - Nephilim Bolt Thrower - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Teraph - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Teraph - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Ravagore - PC: 19 - Naga Nightlurker - PC: 8 - Azrael - PC: 21
Strider Deathstalker - PC: 4 Strider Deathstalker - PC: 4 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 The Forsaken - PC: 4 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1
Blackfrost Shard - Sevryn, Rhylyss & Vysarr: 9
This is my opponents infantry drop. Or at least one of them. He didn't reckon he had much hope into armour. I go second again and get to keep my chair!
He just moves things up the board. Lylyth doesn't have any upkeeps to speak of.
I also do the same thing. Irusk tries to catch both Deatstalkers in an airburst, but the attack goes miles off course. I put up Chosen Ground and camp one. Everything else runs up the board.
None of my pictures this game remotely resemble anything decent, so I'll save you the pain of looking at them.
He gets in a decent feat turn, but the man o wars are pretty much able to tank it. I am able to move my units into the zone under the cover of an artifice of deviation (This was a couple of hours before it was reduced to be completely within actually.) And this helps to protect my Demo Corps and Juggernaut because Eyeless sight doesn't ignore cover.) Despite using Pin Cushion to ease the Shocktroopers into only having the UA and the leader left, my Juggernauts and Demo Corps are able to clear the right hand side of the house which consists of Azreal, a Bolt Thrower and a Teraph.
Eventually, I am able to bring the Ravagore to barely anything, and an empowered Energisered Juggernaut is able to make it into the butt of Lylyth, he does enough damage to wrap around the Ravagore and kill Lylyth on the inital charge attack.
I took even less decent pictures of the last match, but the match went a similar way with Irusk1 and 2 Grolars. Except my Shocktroopers failed to hold off Swordsmen and my Demo Corps managed to wreck a whole unit of raptors with their initials. Eventually though my left flank collapsed and a Seraph was able to tag Irusk1 with 2 shots, Vayl1 threw a snowball at him and 2 Hoarfrosts sealed the deal and killed him.
So I pretty much took the best Casters Khador has to use Man-o-war with and I found them wanting somewhat. My last match was the worse in that when only half your attacks hit on average, it isn't very good when your opponent outnumbers you 2 to 1. Sure, I was able to kill each swordsman I hit, but I was unable to thin their numbers enough to stop them from killing me. I survived a charge on feat turn due to 4+ tough, but I couldn't clear the way enough that the next round was easy due to each of my man o wars only having a few boxes each.
I think Irusk2 is probably the best, but he doesn't have any speed buffs and even with Kovniks man o wars are still slow. Additional movement doesn't help Man-O-Wars run up first turn as much as additional speed would (It would be 12 as opposed to 10 inches.) and I always found getting the Shocktroopers into shield wall was very hard to achieve. Because they don't hit hard enough to not want to charge in when they can do so.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jun 29, 2017 10:25:09 GMT
And aren't you lucky, it's another batrep! I was going back against the same guy who ran Baldur2, this time I was using Butcher3! Butcher3 -Argus -War Dog -Juggernaut -Juggernaut -Juggernaut -Kodiak -Kodiak -Kodiak -Ruin Forge Seer Forge Seer Mechanics (Who I forgot to bring) Bunker (Very Very important!) Against aldur2 -Woldwrath -Megalith -Wold Guardian -Woldwyrd Celestial Fulcrum Gallows Grove Blackclad Wayfarer Blackclad Wayfarer Blackclad Stoneshaper Shifting Stones I lose the roll and end up going second. Everything goes running up the wall as Baldur doesn't have useful upkeeps turn one. I also run up turn one, flooding the board with jacks. I don't put out Silence of Death due to the Waldwyrd lurking around. Double boosted pow12s are scary. Maybe I'm going in a little hard on my right. The Fulcrum gets fury and gets to shoot at my Red Kodiak. He takes quite a bit of damage from it. Enough so that after being Hunter's marked, the Woldwrath kills him without breaking a sweat. The Wyrd does some decent damage with his pew pew gun onto one of my Juggernauts. Baldur gets more rage tokens and puts Roots onto the Wyrd and Wrath. As well as placing an annoying rock wall. Bloody things are annoying. Now my Kodiaks have no hope in hell of bringing down that beast, even with Silence of Death on them. All I can do is try and contest with both Kodiaks. I put about 3 points on it with the green one. However, Butcher moves ahead and puts Silence of Death on my metal Juggernaut. He energises things forward. The forgeseers make him go to full focus and he charges the Wyrd. CRACK! I kill it with two hits. I also don't control my flag because I'm an idiot. As expected, big dark and stoney kills both Kodiaks. In addition, Megalith takes the nearest Juggernaut to 2 boxes. The Guardian kills him and uses his stony fists to knock down the other 2 Juggernauts. My opponent goes to 1. Baldur feats and puts a wall in front of Megalith so my Juggernauts can't get to it. Now, I work out that with Silence of Death on Butcher. I need to do 12 attacks with him (on average) to kill the colossal under roots of the earth. So I draw back Silence of Death. I don't give any to the Juggernauts but one stands up. The Forge Seers fuel it back to 2 and they both go into the Guardian with Ruin charging in. They barely hurt the thing. So I can't score this turn. Now, Butcher gets a press forward order and puts Silence of Death on himself. One dog gets a good PS19 attack off, the other misses. Now It's up to Butcher to finish the job, I just need a good starting roll to bring the monster down. That'll do it! I manage to bring the beast down with my starting focus. I feat and then move back with Energiser to keep Butcher away from Baldur. The score remains 1-0. The Fulcrum and his spray buddies kill both dogs, allowing my opponent to score again. The Guardian flays around, but doesn't do enough to kill my Juggernauts. Megalith moves away to prevent easy charges as he is the only thing counter acting Baldur's increasing Wurm count. Butcher kills the guardian and moves towards my flag, my war dog now controls it. My Juggernaut destroys his objective and Ruin charges Megalith. but bounces off again. I'm now contesting with 2 juggernauts, the score is now 2-1 to me. Megalith and Baldur rip Ruin a new hole. It takes all the fulcrum shots to bring the Juggernaut to one box. IT takes three sprays for the last to take off the final box. The score goes to 3-2. I charge the Juggernaut into Megalith, but he doesn't die. In order to prevent my opponent being able to win on his turn by blowing up my objective and scoring twice, my war dog runs like the wind and just gets in to contest. It's now 4-2. To prevent me from winning, my opponent needs to get Megalith to contest and stop me from scoring. Using the Fulcrum he kills my dog and both Forge Seers, however, the blast damage from the fire shot cracks Butcher's armour, triggering vengeance. Baldur has to kill the Juggernaut to free up Megalith to run. The score becomes 4-3. A vengeance and bought flashing blade finally bring down Megalith, Baldur is within 10 inches of Butcher and that is all she wrote. He kills him on the first hit. Butcher was the last model on the board. But I still win!
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Jul 1, 2017 2:04:55 GMT
Well done! I know that your plan from the very beginning was to have Butcher be the last model on the board for dramatic effect.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 1, 2017 10:22:22 GMT
That was the plan.
If you decrease your odds of survival, it makes your actions more heroic.
In truth, I should have put the Juggernauts up against the Woldwrath.
And if my objective wasn't the bunker, my opponent would have shot it off the board, gone 4-4 and then held out until it was 5-5 and his go again. And then win 6-5 by contesting my objective on his turn.
When in doubt, bunker it out!
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 19, 2017 23:28:02 GMT
So I am back again. It has been a while because my last few battles haven't been that interesting. At least not to the point of wasting time writing one. My first match was a top of turn 2 victory against Garryth. He left him within 15 inches of a Grolar and Strakhov got it to him and killed him. The second one was Sorscha1 WGK against Thagrosh1. He left Thags 18 inches away from Sorscha and she got to him. Then I shot him off the board bottom of turn2. The final match was against the same player on the same day, but he forgot about kill box and I just won automatically. So tonight I went against our other major Ret player, bringing Strakhov1 once again. Kommander Oleg Strakhov -War Dog -Behemoth -Grolar -Grolar -Juggernaut -Juggernaut -Juggernaut Forge Seer Forge Seer Widowmaker Marksman Min Battle Mechanics vs Elara, Death's Shadow -Griffon -Griffon -Imperatus -Phoenix Houseguard Thane Arcanist Mechanik Arcanist Mechanik Dawnguard Sentinels -Officer Houseguard Halberdiers -Officer I didn't get a picture of the deployment because consistency is for the weak! But I go second and pick my side, my opponent runs up the board and puts Scything Touch on one of his Griffons. Everything else just runs up the board. I put Superiority on my right Grolar and Occultation on Strakhov himself, everything moves up too. Behemoth takes about half the boxes off the Griffon. End of Turn 1 My opponent has to feat this turn to prevent me from getting an alpha off and it goes extremely well. The Halberdiers ripped the Grolar to shreds under the mini-feat. They kill it with models to spare before re-positioning back into the zone. The left Griffon gets into combat with my other Grolar and leaves him on a few boxes, he is finished off by a pair of Sentinels and a shot from a Phoenix cannon. The marksman dies to a charging Griffon It's a very blurry picture, but there is a halberdier in front of Strakhov. Well that's annoying. I expected to lose one Grolar but losing the other to the Halberdiers was not what I wanted. Strakhov gives out a little focus to 2 of the juggernauts. A forgeseer kills the halberdier engaging Behemoth and battle wizards empower onto the big beast. With his 2 bombards he is able to kill EIGHT halberdiers. Due to poor spacing on my opponents part. The middle juggernaut clears the Griffon. Strakov takes 3 attempts to kill the halberdier engaging my front lines, and uses overrun to move my Juggernaut to the right. He feats. And the juggernaut is empowered by my other Forgeseer. It charges Imperatus, but misses twice and leaves him very much alive. Not that I expected to kill him anyway. The other Juggernaut charges the Phoenix, he does take a free strike but it isn't that bad. However he misses his charge attack and doesn't do any serious damage to the jack. My mechanics run to engage the Sentinels to prevent them from getting to my last Juggernaut. So Elara puts Scything touch on herself and she moves forward to get in melee range of my jacks. His arcanists move to give out Focus and one of them heals Impy so he doesn't have to pheonix protocol to full effectiveness. Imperatus, the thane and the 2 remaining Halberdiers kill my right Juggernaut, the Sentinels kill the left one. My opponent is able to score 2. I'm right up poop alley now. But I have one hope! My opponent was unable to get to my last juggernaut and the ingenious ultra secret plan that I had been holding back was now achievable. What was my secret plan? Well it's Stakhov1, so that Superiority and Overrun to the face. I give one to the Juggernaut. Strakhov puts Overrun on Behemoth and Superiority on the Juggernaut. Behemoth gets a focus from the Forgeseer and the other one gives the Juggernaut one more to make it have 3. Behemoth aims and shoots Imperatus, of course the Arcanist has moved to base to base contact, and the blast damage kills him. The Juggernaut moves into the woods. Also, the blast damage score high enough that Elara has to burn her 2 focus to avoid damage. Finally, the Juggernaut walks 3 inches, and hits Elara with his axe and kills her in 2 hits. It's another Khador victory! A dirty one, but I'll take that! Post Match Thoughts
Losing both Grolars turn2 was very bad for me. I knew that the Halberds could get to me, but their PS14 attacks rolled high enough to kill it. Same for the Griffon, they are so fast with Elara and PS17 with Scything Touch. This also makes the Sentinels PS14 weaponmasters. Lots of damage. And I just didn't have enough armour to tank it. Behemoth was worth his weight in gold. He barely moves but he was able to clear out a lot of Halberdiers on the flank, and he is amazing for triggering overrun at range. Which is what won me the game.
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Post by Cryptix on Jul 20, 2017 0:35:54 GMT
I think that putting Scything Touch on Elara is illegal, as she has no melee weapon.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 20, 2017 0:38:39 GMT
I think that putting Scything Touch on Elara is illegal, as she has no melee weapon. You must be thinking of Issyria. Elara has a bit stick with scythy bits on the end of it.
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Post by Cryptix on Jul 20, 2017 0:50:09 GMT
I think that putting Scything Touch on Elara is illegal, as she has no melee weapon. You must be thinking of Issyria. Elara has a bit stick with scythy bits on the end of it. This is why I hate retribution. WEAR SOME DIFFERENT ARMOR FOR GOD'S SAKE, YOU'RE ALL WEARING BULBOUS WHITE HIPPY CLOTHING.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 20, 2017 12:38:39 GMT
You must be thinking of Issyria. Elara has a bit stick with scythy bits on the end of it. This is why I hate retribution. WEAR SOME DIFFERENT ARMOR FOR GOD'S SAKE, YOU'RE ALL WEARING BULBOUS WHITE HIPPY CLOTHING. Yeah you get used to it. Issyria has a stick up her butt which helps her float, Elara has a big spiky stick. Kaelyssa has a stick that shoots you, Thyron is just a big stick. So on so forth yardyyardyyar.
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