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Post by paradox on Jun 20, 2017 12:31:28 GMT
Gaze is skill dependant. The Avatar, like a jr, brings caster-independant focus. Otherwise, yes, it's a high stated jack.
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Ryilan
Guild Master
Fighting heretics with vindaloo curry. Taste my spicy wrath!
Posts: 74
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Post by Ryilan on Jun 20, 2017 14:05:11 GMT
I can totally see it working as a none of your models can leave this bubble. The problem is, it's still a pretty big bubble and it's all legal as long as you get a little bit closer to the Avatar during your move. The only time it's really restrictive is when you are going after models that want to try and get away, like a caster/lock and i have in the past used it for that exact reason. Other than that it's just not as restrictive as you might expect, especially if you're opponent knows what they are doing. I mean, you are setting up an expensive model within charging distance of everything except for the slowest stuff out there. I would in return expect the ability to be amazing, not somewhat annoying. And imho that's not skill dependent. That's the reality of the ability. Ryilan
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Post by paradox on Jun 20, 2017 14:28:19 GMT
Having played Avatar since 2005, I definitely disagree. Gaze really has not changed in that time. Nor, really, have threat ranges. It's true that we no longer have no-free-strike Enliven. But then again Ive played Avatar for years before we ever had the vassal.
It's positional. It's strength and impact dependant on how well the Avatar is positioned to effectively disrupt the opponents plan, or create tempting traps. In short, highly skill dependant.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jun 20, 2017 21:48:38 GMT
yes, the avatar is a trick piece, and that gaze is a lot more annoying than people take it for. To start, most people see it as an 11 inch diameter bubble where you can only charge objects inside the bubble and nothing past it. However, it actually has a lot of other uses. As I mentioned before, securing an entire flank is one of its uses. The moment an opponent begins to move for that flank, you simply run him up, pop gaze, and the entire unit is focused on the avatar until it's dead. Another use is death clocking the opponent. In Warmahordes, pieces move by inch, not the entire distance at once. Because of this, you can force the opponent to measure that 1 inch and then the distance towards the base to insure they have gotten closer within that 1 inch line. You can force them to do this for every inch, making 1 model's movement take an additional 30 seconds. If they try to move an entire unit that is under the gaze, that's 5 minutes of a 60min clock for 1 turn, 1 unit. He's an annoyance and skill based piece. I wouldn't recommend him for players that are new to warmahordes or players that are new to the faction. However, in tournament play, he can be a serious game changer. Anyone whose gone to serious tournaments has probably seen just how many mistakes people make when their clock runs down, especially the last 10-20 minutes.
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Post by Swampmist on Jun 21, 2017 0:57:24 GMT
I don't know about you, but an ability that is only good when I'm being an anal neckbeard to my opponent is not something I want to play.
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d3z
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by d3z on Jun 21, 2017 1:48:20 GMT
In Warmahordes, pieces move by inch, not the entire distance at once. Because of this, you can force the opponent to measure that 1 inch and then the distance towards the base to insure they have gotten closer within that 1 inch line. You can force them to do this for every inch, making 1 model's movement take an additional 30 seconds. Where is this in the rules? If a guy activates his model under gaze, shows a straight line of movement and that his model will not cross the perpendicular line between the movement path and the Avatar, he has proven that he is always moving closer along that line. I have no doubt that your suggestion is unethical, but I also doubt it could be enforced. For that matter, why are things broken down into inches? I've never seen someone told they have to move a model a minimum of an inch.
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Post by paradox on Jun 21, 2017 2:43:25 GMT
I don't know about you, but an ability that is only good when I'm being an anal neckbeard to my opponent is not something I want to play. This is where people skills come into play.
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Post by W0lfBane on Jun 21, 2017 3:10:48 GMT
OK so i would like to point out that the definition if toward changed in mrk3. You no longer have to have the distance continually decrease. It can stay the same. So if you make a tangential move rules wise that is still considered towards.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Jun 21, 2017 3:11:42 GMT
I don't know about you, but an ability that is only good when I'm being an anal neckbeard to my opponent is not something I want to play. This is where people skills come into play. The people skills involved here are the kind that make new players reconsider age of sigmar. Seriously, don't do this...Someone here has a signature about having friends afterwards. That one's true. Also, never heard of the one inch thing. I've moved half inches or less, particularly when keeping within combat ranges.
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Post by Cryptix on Jun 21, 2017 3:18:19 GMT
Am I not getting something? How is it neckbeardy?
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Post by paradox on Jun 21, 2017 3:22:25 GMT
This is where people skills come into play. The people skills involved here are the kind that make new players reconsider age of sigmar. Seriously, don't do this...Someone here has a signature about having friends afterwards. That one's true. Also, never heard of the one inch thing. I've moved half inches or less, particularly when keeping within combat ranges. I dont know how you manage the real world if you cant figure out how to play Gaze without being a d nozzle?
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Post by Swampmist on Jun 21, 2017 3:44:49 GMT
I mean the specific example that Demonic gave, which is all of probably not true, kind-of a dick move, and is basically asking for the opponent to quit imho.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Jun 21, 2017 4:15:51 GMT
I mean the specific example that Demonic gave, which is all of probably not true, kind-of a dick move, and is basically asking for the opponent to quit imho. yeah, me too. in normal, non-arsehole play, why would gaze be the rage out inducer over....passage, or no spell use, or Mk 2 paladins double stancing?
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jun 21, 2017 5:52:57 GMT
people making things get complicated x.O;
completely avoiding the avatar by moving circular around it is a real dick thing to do. Because of that, you play the dick move back and make them prove that their model was always moving toward the Avatar. Of course, if they move in a straight line then no measurements are required. However, if they move in a circular pattern to avoid an obstacle or terrain feature, they must measure each individual inch while moving around the circle. Lets make things a bit easier to depict... Say a cav model wants to attack a caster, but an infantry line is in the way. They have the movement to simply go around the infantry line and make it to the caster BUT they have to prove that the cav model never engaged the infantry's freestrike zone. In order to prove it, they cannot just put the base next to the caster and attack it, they must measure the range of the infantry model's attack and slide the base around it, rechecking after every inch traveled that the model did, indeed, never got close enough to engage the infantry line. The avatar's gaze is another example of when this check comes into play. If you want to skirt the outside instead of getting freestruck and have the range to do so GOOD! you can do so. HOWEVER, the owner of the avatar has the right to make you check to insure that you are both outside of his freestrike zone and navigating under the movement rules of the gaze.
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Ryilan
Guild Master
Fighting heretics with vindaloo curry. Taste my spicy wrath!
Posts: 74
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Post by Ryilan on Jun 21, 2017 8:22:39 GMT
completely avoiding the avatar by moving circular around it is a real dick thing to do. By that logic using a magical weapon to ignore passage is also a dick move. It's not. You are using an ability to try and restrict your opponents actions and mobility. Ignoring that ability as much as you can is not a dick move, it's playing the game. Your cavalry example does not work for Gaze. The only things you are required to measure are: 1) If after moving the model is it at the same distance they began/have gotten closer to the Avatar. 2) If they have gone through the free strike zone. That's it. You do not have the right to demand they check inch after inch. There is such a thing as sportsmanship. We are all playing this game to have fun. Ryilan
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