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Post by auraco on Jun 5, 2017 10:19:23 GMT
The thing is that Denny1 is probably going to be the one piloting the list...
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Post by sand20go on Jun 5, 2017 13:47:55 GMT
If they aren't using Denny1, just drop armour. The theme isn't hard to beat, it's just hard to have an answer for in steamroller. Not true at all. There are at LEAST three solid varients of ghost fleet. I am not sure you have to cover they ALL but you should be thinking about them. While Denny is the best pilot there is nothing stopping the Cryx player from playing GF in both lists with a different pilot. So far I have seen the following varients Termi - so all the pirates in the bubble are tough and like all Terminus lists it is designed to deliver the big bad boy into the fray and either kill you or sit on scenario. Sac pawn on the pirates with 6 to 9 coming back every turn. And you thought the convergenance theme sucked. ;-) Terminus is another reason for Sorscha2, allowing you to at least try to whittle down his sac pawn targets. CMd10 means they are probably spread out enough to minimize the shatterstorm AOEs. Don't lose on clock ;-) Coven - provides for the Curse of Shadows debuff to help with the amor. Feat and then forces your caster to back up or get aimed shots into him/her. Occulataion likely on one of the Rev crew. This I think is the right pairing with Denny - as if you were relying upon direct shots (aka WGIRC or MHSF) you now have a problem with the occulation on one of the units. I think the right thing to do - at least unit our doomie theme gets stealth - is 1) Put in S2 in a tournament pairing where you think you will see Cryx. I think you put in A&H - if only because you can then use the same list to help cover some (all?) of menoth - for example getting a good turn (or 2?) of shooting into key Amon targets with, for example, either the rifles or I think better Conquest looking for a nice big critical devestation slam to make the monk's life pretty sad. The core of Connie, WGIRCDS and A&H comes out at 41 points so you have a lot of flexibility there to both keep S2 alive and to increase her viability into other things (Alton? E2? Kell? A clam (or 2?). With Connie and WGI you should have enough RFP with hot swapping shatter storm to seal the deal and force him to drop the other list. 2) The riskier strategy it to find a VERY long and from downtown caster. The candidate likely of choice would be Strak1. Occultation helps out here tremendously as the ghost fleet has few answers to stealth. The biggest would usually be Denny's venom and with immunity to acid that doesn't work on Strak. With Overrun on his superiority Jack he is in pretty good shape - getting 6+6+4+3+ 1/2 or 20/21 inches. That means you could try to look to force denny to hang WAY back or get Spriggan (or beast/ruin/grolar) to the face. You need to be careful - having either a plan for the bone chickens and/or not caring too much if you get cripping grasped.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Jun 5, 2017 14:11:29 GMT
Here's a thought: What about Irusk 1 under Winter Guard Kommand? With a bunch of winterguard who have extra to hit you can stay ahead of the returning forces, and you'll be super tough before lines engage? It doesn't seem quite as good as Sorscha 1 or 2, but then again I'm not seeing Irusk 1 a lot at least in my area. I do wonder if that would surprise some people.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 5, 2017 14:17:53 GMT
Here's a thought: What about Irusk 1 under Winter Guard Kommand? With a bunch of winterguard who have extra to hit you can stay ahead of the returning forces, and you'll be super tough before lines engage? It doesn't seem quite as good as Sorscha 1 or 2, but then again I'm not seeing Irusk 1 a lot at least in my area. I do wonder if that would surprise some people. Irusk 1 would get boned hard by Ghost Fleet, having no RFP and providing lots of Warrior models for the Cannons and Rengrave to turn into Revenant, and the Blackbanes to reanimate seems bad. The super tough is for 1 turn, a canny Cryx player will just wait you out.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 5, 2017 14:34:37 GMT
Here's a thought: What about Irusk 1 under Winter Guard Kommand? With a bunch of winterguard who have extra to hit you can stay ahead of the returning forces, and you'll be super tough before lines engage? It doesn't seem quite as good as Sorscha 1 or 2, but then again I'm not seeing Irusk 1 a lot at least in my area. I do wonder if that would surprise some people. Problem I see is threat ranges. So the INFANTRY is treatening 6+8 or 14. His regular pirates are threatening 16 (6+10). So it is hard to see how you don't have to feat purely defensively. Meanwhile you have very little magic in theme. now you DO have Airburst but I think you have to double boost to ensure that you get rid of blackbane but then that leaves you in a challenged place (Denny moves up, feats, then I would say Double Venom to clear out your WGI. Then either CG/Parasite or only one venom and then Sourage. THen apply Ghost shots, pistols wraight shots, hellslinger. You could TRY to weather out the blackbanes but it feels like that just delays things a turn and means black
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Post by Tenzilla on Jun 5, 2017 15:07:50 GMT
S2+2 GC + new GC rules+ shatterstorm. Just RFP a unit every turn, who needs to worry about just the leader with all those RFP impacts and regular blast damage.
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Jun 5, 2017 15:14:47 GMT
I know he doesn't have any RFP but how about Strak1 Jaws of the wolf with Kayazy assassins and his assassination vectors?
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Jun 5, 2017 15:21:51 GMT
Yeah, fair play. I guess I will stick with S1!
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Post by sand20go on Jun 5, 2017 16:50:31 GMT
I know he doesn't have any RFP but how about Strak1 Jaws of the wolf with Kayazy assassins and his assassination vectors? Could work. I want to try him. My main concern is whether/if he can force Denny into feating far enough forward to be at risk but yet Strakov is near enough to get the overrun he needs to trigger. It is a cagey game - would love to hear more from the more experienced Strak1 guys as to what you put out as "bait" that forces Denny to feel like she has to feat or be pushed out.
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Post by skathrex on Jun 6, 2017 9:19:18 GMT
Be Careful not to underestimate it. Taking out the Leader is easier said then done and a savy opponent can make you work for it by killing his own leaders and promoting them far back. That won't help him against Sorscha2 but will against things like Alexia2. I know he doesn't have any RFP but how about Strak1 Jaws of the wolf with Kayazy assassins and his assassination vectors? Atm I am pondering that myself. But I don't think Assassins are a good idea, because they have to get to far into the fleet and Pirates have Mat7/8 in CC, with Crippling Grasp its 9/10. Eliminators on the other hand sound really nice. I am pondering 7 jacks + Eliminators to pressure her to feat early. And Strakov can manage really well with holding back a few jacks. Of course S1 is most likely our best answer that also covers a lot of additional matchups. Fairly save and pressures denny a lot herself (especially with Torch). Clear the path, Feat on her, drop a Flare, shoot and profit. Of course every plan with shooting goes downhill when playing against Coven, but Coven really struggles against arm. Terminus is just a worse way version than Coven and Denny1
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Post by schwenckenstein on Jun 12, 2017 3:28:11 GMT
So, no competent player is ever going to let you rfp the leader model. Your best bet is to rfp as much as possible so they can't come back. As far as wgk being overkill I disagree. Sorscha2 is extremely vulnerable to assassination without theme and functionally immune to it in theme. For that reason alone the theme is a good choice.
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