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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 25, 2017 12:14:33 GMT
So with the new Trencher theme force and releases, plus all the current models going into CID, what would you change about our current Trencher Models? here is what I would do
Trencher Infantry - Fine as they are
Trencher Commandoes - I think their rules are fine, it is just a lack of infantry (their natural prey) that make them less attractive, that might all change with SR17 so I would leave them as they are, maybe a point reduction of 1.
Trencher Cannon - Give it Advance Deploy, Dig in is a waste of time on it at the moment.
Trencher Chain Gun - Same sort of problem as Commandoes, maybe could do with a slight increase in range (maybe 12") or a slight increase in pow (pow 11), or just a points reduction down to 4.
Master Gunner - Fine
Trench Buster - oh god where to start! ideally I would want girded back, but if that is not going to happen then an increase to 8 boxes, and maybe a reduction to 5 points.
Finn - Fine
Grenadier - Fine
Gibbs - Meow
Murdoch - Who is that again?
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on May 25, 2017 15:49:01 GMT
Since the theme will accompany the CID, I'd say as long as busters can be free, they're probably fine. Increase to 8 boxes would be awesome, though. Commandoes could use prey and ambush. I hope they get those from a CA and/theme benefit.
If Trenchers get rise from the theme, this is gonna be really good. H3 is gonna be a monster.
Finn is totally fine.
Gibbs is cool, I'll be happy to bring him with Stryker2 again.
Murdoch doesn't really count, because none of the things he attatches to can be in the theme. Nonetheless, a point reduction would be good for him.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 25, 2017 15:58:12 GMT
Since the theme will accompany the CID, I'd say as long as busters can be free, they're probably fine. Increase to 8 boxes would be awesome, though. Commandoes could use prey and ambush. I hope they get those from a CA and/theme benefit. If Trenchers get rise from the theme, this is gonna be really good. H3 is gonna be a monster. Finn is totally fine. Gibbs is cool, I'll be happy to bring him with Stryker2 again. Murdoch doesn't really count, because none of the things he attatches to can be in the theme. Nonetheless, a point reduction would be good for him. They could be if the theme said so. This is one of the things that I really hope PP does with the Trencher theme (allow you to take one mercenary unit with Murdoch attached, and make them Trencher models as a result).
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on May 25, 2017 16:13:04 GMT
Since the theme will accompany the CID, I'd say as long as busters can be free, they're probably fine. Increase to 8 boxes would be awesome, though. Commandoes could use prey and ambush. I hope they get those from a CA and/theme benefit. If Trenchers get rise from the theme, this is gonna be really good. H3 is gonna be a monster. Finn is totally fine. Gibbs is cool, I'll be happy to bring him with Stryker2 again. Murdoch doesn't really count, because none of the things he attatches to can be in the theme. Nonetheless, a point reduction would be good for him. They could be if the theme said so. This is one of the things that I really hope PP does with the Trencher theme (allow you to take one mercenary unit with Murdoch attached, and make them Trencher models as a result). I think you are dreaming, m8. It wouldn't make any thematic sense. "Murdoch, who are these new recruits? They look a bit on the short side." Murdoch-"These are forgeguard trencher recruits, sir." Officer-"they look an awful lot like normal forgeguard, though. Are you sure they belong in our ranks?" Murdoch-"Certainly, sir. I've taught them how to dig in. Watch." *All of the dwarves start wailing on the ground with their giant hammers* I just don't see it happening. PP has way more incentive to push the new models they are selling. I think Murdoch is going in the pile of models without a theme, along with long gunners and Pendrake.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 25, 2017 17:03:50 GMT
They could be if the theme said so. This is one of the things that I really hope PP does with the Trencher theme (allow you to take one mercenary unit with Murdoch attached, and make them Trencher models as a result). I think you are dreaming, m8. It wouldn't make any thematic sense. "Murdoch, who are these new recruits? They look a bit on the short side." Murdoch-"These are forgeguard trencher recruits, sir." Officer-"they look an awful lot like normal forgeguard, though. Are you sure they belong in our ranks?" Murdoch-"Certainly, sir. I've taught them how to dig in. Watch." *All of the dwarves start wailing on the ground with their giant hammers* I just don't see it happening. PP has way more incentive to push the new models they are selling. I think Murdoch is going in the pile of models without a theme, along with long gunners and Pendrake. I don't know you, so I don't think I'm your "M8." Anyway, it makes plenty of thematic sense. The whole purpose of a ranking officer is to bring unit into the faction fold and to incorporate them into the army's hierarchy etc. Because Murdoch is a Trencher, what would possibly be more flavorful or a theme force than allowing him to bring a mercenary unit under his command? Whether they are deemed Trencher models or not seems like an issue for play testing.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on May 25, 2017 17:19:15 GMT
I think you are dreaming, m8. It wouldn't make any thematic sense. "Murdoch, who are these new recruits? They look a bit on the short side." Murdoch-"These are forgeguard trencher recruits, sir." Officer-"they look an awful lot like normal forgeguard, though. Are you sure they belong in our ranks?" Murdoch-"Certainly, sir. I've taught them how to dig in. Watch." *All of the dwarves start wailing on the ground with their giant hammers* I just don't see it happening. PP has way more incentive to push the new models they are selling. I think Murdoch is going in the pile of models without a theme, along with long gunners and Pendrake. I don't know you, so I don't think I'm your "M8." Anyway, it makes plenty of thematic sense. The whole purpose of a ranking officer is to bring unit into the faction fold and to incorporate them into the army's hierarchy etc. Because Murdoch is a Trencher, what would possibly be more flavorful or a theme force than allowing him to bring a mercenary unit under his command? Whether they are deemed Trencher models or not seems like an issue for play testing. Aplologies if you were offended by my salutation. Well, one automatic issue is that they would benefit from Finn's Veteran leader. Anyway, I just don't see it happening. You're right, ranking officers bring mercs into the hierarchy, but that doesn't make them trenchers. And there's no reason to include non-trenchers in the trencher theme. Especially when there are ton of new models coming. I'm not necessarily opposed to Murdoch and Friends tagging along, it just seems unlikely.
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Post by danfromchicago on May 25, 2017 18:22:31 GMT
Vet Leader applies to models not units. While a unit lead by Murdoch is a trencher unit, since it has a trencher model, the only trencher model is Murdoch which means that only Murdoch would get the vet leader. So Vet leader would not be a problem at all.
Operating Theater allows you to take a non-drudge unit lead by a Dominator.
Blindwater Congregation allows you to take a merc jack marshalled by Moorclaw.
I don't expect that the benefits will include a merc unit lead by Murdoch, but it certainly could
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 25, 2017 18:26:25 GMT
Operating Theater allows you to take a non-drudge unit lead by a Dominator. Thats Kinda the Shtick of the Cephalyx. Mind Controlling captured slaves. Also its shtick and one of the main benefits.
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Post by danfromchicago on May 25, 2017 18:43:32 GMT
Murdoch has this shtick where he makes a merc unit a cygnar trencher unit
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 25, 2017 18:46:09 GMT
Murdoch has this shtick where he makes a merc unit a cygnar trencher unit Not really at all. The entire Cephalyx race exist around subjugating other Races. Trenchers are about unity and a sort of military siblinghood. Where do mercenaries fit into all of this?
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Post by danfromchicago on May 25, 2017 18:48:10 GMT
Trencher Cannon - Give it Advance Deploy, Dig in is a waste of time on it at the moment.
You do know that one of the insiders addressed why the cannon lost AD, right?
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on May 25, 2017 19:38:32 GMT
Vet Leader applies to models not units. While a unit lead by Murdoch is a trencher unit, since it has a trencher model, the only trencher model is Murdoch which means that only Murdoch would get the vet leader. So Vet leader would not be a problem at all. Operating Theater allows you to take a non-drudge unit lead by a Dominator. Blindwater Congregation allows you to take a merc jack marshalled by Moorclaw. I don't expect that the benefits will include a merc unit lead by Murdoch, but it certainly could Yeah, I know. If you would read some of the above posts, you will see that we were discussing the possible change to Murdoch that would allow him to give the Trencher tag to Merc units. If that were the case, then Veteran Leader would affect them.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on May 25, 2017 19:40:27 GMT
Murdoch has this shtick where he makes a merc unit a cygnar trencher unit He had that in MKII. They changed it. Now the unit becomes a Cygnar unit, but they do not become a Trencher unit.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on May 25, 2017 20:42:50 GMT
If you add a Mercenary unit to the theme, Murdoch would be able to attach to them. I'd imagine it will be Ogryn assault Corps if anything.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 25, 2017 20:48:51 GMT
Trencher Cannon - Give it Advance Deploy, Dig in is a waste of time on it at the moment.
You do know that one of the insiders addressed why the cannon lost AD, right? Yep, but the whole point of CID is to correct mistakes
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