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Post by greytemplar on May 28, 2017 3:34:29 GMT
Set Defense is pretty meh on Def11 anyway. And the Seneschal is actually ok as he stands. It's his rank and file brothers where the problem lies. If and when Bastions get fixed, the Bastion Seneschal will become awesome. He's basically a sleeper.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 28, 2017 12:48:48 GMT
Have to agree with Provengreil and greytemplar. When I first read the BE change, what popped in my mind was not healing Bastions, but healing jacks. Sure, Bastions can shrug off small arms fire, but so Cinerators and buffed Errants. Also, people are probably more likely to target them with higher quality fire that will, once again, be killing them before any healing can kick in. At this point, they might as well trade Sanguine Bond for Wall of Steel, and have the Seneschal grant Leadership: +1 ARM. BTW, I just found out the other day that the Bastion Seneschal does not have Set Defense. WTF is that? Errants get Unyielding+Assault and Exemplars get Righteous Vengeance to match Battle Driven. He got jack marshal instead. What he really needs is to be buffing a legitimately good unit. Also, at DEF 11, he still needs more than set defense anyway to put his defense at reliably high levels. EDIT: shakes tiny Menite fist of impotent rage at greytemplar
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Post by knapsen on May 28, 2017 13:00:58 GMT
For me, double BE with (double) bastions under Vindictus or Harbinger (maybe in exemplar theme) is actually a thing to think about.
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Post by macdaddy on May 28, 2017 16:04:14 GMT
For me, double BE with (double) bastions under Vindictus or Harbinger (maybe in exemplar theme) is actually a thing to think about. I still think point for point your better off using cinerators. Hit harder and higher arm plus vengence. Just a lot more synergy and activity. Bastions just kind of die and can't really retaliate enough to start taking advantage of the attrition swing potential. Bastions really need something else. Defensive strike, Higher Arm, Better sanguine bond. Any of that would be enough to make me consider them particularly defensive strike.
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Post by greytemplar on May 28, 2017 19:08:31 GMT
Or just actually be tanky again. 8 boxes and/or Impervious Flesh would make them actually be able to take a hit.
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Post by knapsen on May 28, 2017 20:33:39 GMT
For me, double BE with (double) bastions under Vindictus or Harbinger (maybe in exemplar theme) is actually a thing to think about. I still think point for point your better off using cinerators. Hit harder and higher arm plus vengence. Just a lot more synergy and activity. Bastions just kind of die and can't really retaliate enough to start taking advantage of the attrition swing potential. Bastions really need something else. Defensive strike, Higher Arm, Better sanguine bond. Any of that would be enough to make me consider them particularly defensive strike. Cinerators are also an option. But for Harbinger it's easier to not let the Bastions die with matyrdom.
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on May 28, 2017 21:51:26 GMT
Or just actually be tanky again. 8 boxes and/or Impervious Flesh would make them actually be able to take a hit. As much as I know they'll benefit from 8 boxes, I think it's off the table for the moment. The only other unit that's gained boxes since the start of MKIII got that through a theme force and the Exemplar theme is out now. Impervious flesh sounds better on a SPD 4 unit, but if we get that, everyone else will cry 'broken' because of our battle engine. I'm not sure how I feel about its balance, but it is interesting at least. Maybe they could lose set defense and gain wall of steel instead and I'm beginning to think that they should have unyielding. I really do agree that they need something to set them apart from Cinnerators. They still have a small hope that a CA will fix them, but it shouldn't be down to that, they should be worth taking even without a CA.
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Post by paradox on May 28, 2017 22:54:03 GMT
I could see 8 wounds with the bond limited to 3" now, and with cinerators having gotten substantially better as a counter choice. But something more to develop their more defensive role would work. Wall of Steel feeds into the reduced bond range, bunching you up but also giving a non-melee conditional buff. 13/18 vs charges before buffs is an attractive thought.
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Post by paradox on May 28, 2017 22:55:18 GMT
Alternatively, Defensive Strike would be great too.
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Post by Azuresun on May 29, 2017 0:14:30 GMT
Shit, I take a year off to play Circle and the whole community drowns in the oceans. I think you're fighting a losing battle here, Paradox. There's a lot of PoM players extremely happy with all what the faction offers and all the things there are to discover. They just don't see a point in discussing it where the only opinion you get is "PoM sucks, PP actively hates PoM, MAT6 warjacks unplayable, Choir nerfed to the ground, Harby garbage, denial non-existant, recursion non-existant, fire irrelevant, models impervious to enemy attacks and auto-killing enemy the only way PoM can be made fair and right" There were good reasons for PP nuking the faction forums on their board, I'm sure the PoM forum was one of them. Unfortunately the venom and powerlessness of a vocal minority came here (as I was afraid of). It's not all PoM community though. We just play and win and enjoy. For example I can't wait for what the Polish WTC players have prepared PoM-wise:) Quoted for truth. When I look at the actual stats & models (wait, your 7pt jack has MAT 7?!), I feel interested in starting Protectorate again. Then I come to the forums, and see a 7-page thread dedicated to spitting bile at the designers and yeah, feeling that enthusiasm drain away a bit and cautious about posting anything that might get jumped on by forum warriors.
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Post by Swampmist on May 29, 2017 0:25:41 GMT
I think you're fighting a losing battle here, Paradox. There's a lot of PoM players extremely happy with all what the faction offers and all the things there are to discover. They just don't see a point in discussing it where the only opinion you get is "PoM sucks, PP actively hates PoM, MAT6 warjacks unplayable, Choir nerfed to the ground, Harby garbage, denial non-existant, recursion non-existant, fire irrelevant, models impervious to enemy attacks and auto-killing enemy the only way PoM can be made fair and right" There were good reasons for PP nuking the faction forums on their board, I'm sure the PoM forum was one of them. Unfortunately the venom and powerlessness of a vocal minority came here (as I was afraid of). It's not all PoM community though. We just play and win and enjoy. For example I can't wait for what the Polish WTC players have prepared PoM-wise:) Quoted for truth. When I look at the actual stats & models (wait, your 7pt jack has MAT 7?!), I feel interested in starting Protectorate again. Then I come to the forums, and see a 7-page thread dedicated to spitting bile at the designers and yeah, feeling that enthusiasm drain away a bit and cautious about posting anything that might get jumped on by forum warriors. There's a reason that said thread got locked just a few hours ago
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Post by paradox on May 29, 2017 0:55:23 GMT
Im not sure that solves his issue. That said, come back to the fold! I'll be your champion! Maybe not the one you deserve, but the one you need.
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Post by Scrub_of_Menoth on May 29, 2017 1:12:05 GMT
I think you're fighting a losing battle here, Paradox. There's a lot of PoM players extremely happy with all what the faction offers and all the things there are to discover. They just don't see a point in discussing it where the only opinion you get is "PoM sucks, PP actively hates PoM, MAT6 warjacks unplayable, Choir nerfed to the ground, Harby garbage, denial non-existant, recursion non-existant, fire irrelevant, models impervious to enemy attacks and auto-killing enemy the only way PoM can be made fair and right" There were good reasons for PP nuking the faction forums on their board, I'm sure the PoM forum was one of them. Unfortunately the venom and powerlessness of a vocal minority came here (as I was afraid of). It's not all PoM community though. We just play and win and enjoy. For example I can't wait for what the Polish WTC players have prepared PoM-wise:) Quoted for truth. When I look at the actual stats & models (wait, your 7pt jack has MAT 7?!), I feel interested in starting Protectorate again. Then I come to the forums, and see a 7-page thread dedicated to spitting bile at the designers and yeah, feeling that enthusiasm drain away a bit and cautious about posting anything that might get jumped on by forum warriors. Shit, I'm the mod who tries to be overwhelmingly positive. I'll be your dude.
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Post by Gaston on May 29, 2017 3:27:03 GMT
I like Harby in Exemplar theme.
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Post by greytemplar on May 29, 2017 3:44:31 GMT
I think you're fighting a losing battle here, Paradox. There's a lot of PoM players extremely happy with all what the faction offers and all the things there are to discover. They just don't see a pocan't in discussing it where the only opinion you get is "PoM sucks, PP actively hates PoM, MAT6 warjacks unplayable, Choir nerfed to the ground, Harby garbage, denial non-existant, recursion non-existant, fire irrelevant, models impervious to enemy attacks and auto-killing enemy the only way PoM can be made fair and right" There were good reasons for PP nuking the faction forums on their board, I'm sure the PoM forum was one of them. Unfortunately the venom and powerlessness of a vocal minority came here (as I was afraid of). It's not all PoM community though. We just play and win and enjoy. For example I can't wait for what the Polish WTC players have prepared PoM-wise:) Quoted for truth. When I look at the actual stats & models (wait, your 7pt jack has MAT 7?!), I feel interested in starting Protectorate again. Then I come to the forums, and see a 7-page thread dedicated to spitting bile at the designers and yeah, feeling that enthusiasm drain away a bit and cautious about posting anything that might get jumped on by forum warriors. You do realize that none of us want that to be the case. We're not just being negative because we want to be negative. We're negative because there are things to be negative about. That's just the way things are right now. When stuff gets better the negativity will go away, mostly. I cant deny i am somewhat of a cynical person. But this is better than being overly positive. Inane positivity is even worse than being perhaps slightly too negative. You'll lose more new players if you refuse to acknowledge the problems that exist.
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