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Post by sand20go on May 17, 2017 19:41:16 GMT
So....
I play a TON of games in my meta against Cygnar and Menoth. VERY common. Much more than Khador, Retribution, Trolls, Legion. Some Skorne out there. I don't think ANYONE is regularly playing minions (I do own Pigs!).
And at least 1/2 of every game I go "Wow, Kossites could have really punched over their weight if they had killed a solo.
So take the last game. Got killed by Stryker2 who only could do the deed because Runewood passed out pathfinder to Stryker. At Def13/ARM 14 and 5 boxes a 6 man unit of Hillbillies able to get back arced shots would have a good shot at killing him. Worse case I might have been able to RUN a dude to tie him up. Gibbs was also on the table (13/13) - another key solo that if he dies the Swan players tricks become that much more problematic.
Now a BUNCH of it was a "tilt" as I got frustrated when a Man hunter (and then a jack!) wiffed badly on killing a Stormlance jam and so I overexposed Hark. Added to the fun was the WMM wiffing on killing RAGMAN the turn prior. Could have not tilted and altering the plan after the bad dice and played the long game out but no matter.
But consider the following
Current list
Hark (Jaws) Kodiaks x3 Juggers x3 ForgeSeer Behemoth Forgeseer #2 Mechs min Manhunter (free) WMM (free)
which could be Hark TWO Kodiaks Juggers x3 Forgeseer (free)+Behemoth Forgeseer (free) Manhunter Yuri Kossites Min Mechanics min
If Forest heavy I have the joy of Treewalker and with the hillbillies you can contemplate simply walking out of combat if someone runs into the forest to shut down your aimed shooting. I go from being about 50/50 into Amon (for example) to having a real answer to the choir - needing 8s to hit them even if I don't get to aim or backstrike....and the way that the Amon Dervish spam plays into Hark it is very likely that the Hillbillies could ambush even as late as bottom of 2 and knock out a decent amount of Choir dudes - or Vassals....or soak in shots into the bloody book.
So interweb - if you played in such a meta would you give the Hillbillies a look.....and perhaps even more of one given the value of infantry (and treewalking solos) with where we currently stand in SR 2017?
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on May 17, 2017 19:52:11 GMT
I don't want to talk you down from this. Give it a shot and see what happens!
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Post by auraco on May 17, 2017 20:06:14 GMT
My issue with the kossite is their rat 4, with only range 10 it's not that easy to get an aiming bonus and with backstrike they are still less accurate than widowmakers or winterguards under joe. Also, having to take Yuri to give them benefits seems counterproductive since yuri is overpriced for what he brings to the table in my opinion.
Do try it, I might be wrong, but this is one of the reasons why I never invested in kossites.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 17, 2017 20:06:57 GMT
So.... I play a TON of games in my meta against Cygnar and Menoth. VERY common. Much more than Khador, Retribution, Trolls, Legion. Some Skorne out there. I don't think ANYONE is regularly playing minions (I do own Pigs!). And at least 1/2 of every game I go "Wow, Kossites could have really punched over their weight if they had killed a solo. So take the last game. Got killed by Stryker2 who only could do the deed because Runewood passed out pathfinder to Stryker. At Def13/ARM 14 and 5 boxes a 6 man unit of Hillbillies able to get back arced shots would have a good shot at killing him. Worse case I might have been able to RUN a dude to tie him up. Gibbs was also on the table (13/13) - another key solo that if he dies the Swan players tricks become that much more problematic. Now a BUNCH of it was a "tilt" as I got frustrated when a Man hunter (and then a jack!) wiffed badly on killing a Stormlance jam and so I overexposed Hark. Added to the fun was the WMM wiffing on killing RAGMAN the turn prior. Could have not tilted and altering the plan after the bad dice and played the long game out but no matter. But consider the following Current list Hark (Jaws) Kodiaks x3 Juggers x3 ForgeSeer Behemoth Forgeseer #2 Mechs min Manhunter (free) WMM (free) which could be Hark TWO Kodiaks Juggers x3 Forgeseer (free)+Behemoth Forgeseer (free) Manhunter Yuri Kossites Min Mechanics min If Forest heavy I have the joy of Treewalker and with the hillbillies you can contemplate simply walking out of combat if someone runs into the forest to shut down your aimed shooting. I go from being about 50/50 into Amon (for example) to having a real answer to the choir - needing 8s to hit them even if I don't get to aim or backstrike....and the way that the Amon Dervish spam plays into Hark it is very likely that the Hillbillies could ambush even as late as bottom of 2 and knock out a decent amount of Choir dudes - or Vassals....or soak in shots into the bloody book. So interweb - if you played in such a meta would you give the Hillbillies a look.....and perhaps even more of one given the value of infantry (and treewalking solos) with where we currently stand in SR 2017? Play them with Strakhov2. Worst case scenario, they are 11 points of throwaway dudes (meaning high likelihood of getting ignored) who can actually do work when you give them Last Stand (8 of them would kill an ARM18 warjack on the charge, if you could fit all 8 into melee).
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Post by sand20go on May 17, 2017 20:12:54 GMT
So.... I play a TON of games in my meta against Cygnar and Menoth. VERY common. Much more than Khador, Retribution, Trolls, Legion. Some Skorne out there. I don't think ANYONE is regularly playing minions (I do own Pigs!). And at least 1/2 of every game I go "Wow, Kossites could have really punched over their weight if they had killed a solo. So take the last game. Got killed by Stryker2 who only could do the deed because Runewood passed out pathfinder to Stryker. At Def13/ARM 14 and 5 boxes a 6 man unit of Hillbillies able to get back arced shots would have a good shot at killing him. Worse case I might have been able to RUN a dude to tie him up. Gibbs was also on the table (13/13) - another key solo that if he dies the Swan players tricks become that much more problematic. Now a BUNCH of it was a "tilt" as I got frustrated when a Man hunter (and then a jack!) wiffed badly on killing a Stormlance jam and so I overexposed Hark. Added to the fun was the WMM wiffing on killing RAGMAN the turn prior. Could have not tilted and altering the plan after the bad dice and played the long game out but no matter. But consider the following Current list Hark (Jaws) Kodiaks x3 Juggers x3 ForgeSeer Behemoth Forgeseer #2 Mechs min Manhunter (free) WMM (free) which could be Hark TWO Kodiaks Juggers x3 Forgeseer (free)+Behemoth Forgeseer (free) Manhunter Yuri Kossites Min Mechanics min If Forest heavy I have the joy of Treewalker and with the hillbillies you can contemplate simply walking out of combat if someone runs into the forest to shut down your aimed shooting. I go from being about 50/50 into Amon (for example) to having a real answer to the choir - needing 8s to hit them even if I don't get to aim or backstrike....and the way that the Amon Dervish spam plays into Hark it is very likely that the Hillbillies could ambush even as late as bottom of 2 and knock out a decent amount of Choir dudes - or Vassals....or soak in shots into the bloody book. So interweb - if you played in such a meta would you give the Hillbillies a look.....and perhaps even more of one given the value of infantry (and treewalking solos) with where we currently stand in SR 2017? Play them with Strakhov2. Worst case scenario, they are 11 points of throwaway dudes (meaning high likelihood of getting ignored) who can actually do work when you give them Last Stand (8 of them would kill an ARM18 warjack on the charge, if you could fit all 8 into melee). Was thinking Hark more in theme. That would give one 8 AD models while opponent gets none. Manhunter is for free. They are "bodies" that can force Trample tax in some instances. Strak2 last stand options is, as you note, also "Hysterical" but that would mean going out of strak2 theme which while I really want to try is right now challenging because of just how wonderful countercharge is when your models also have precision strike. It warms the heart to knock out spirits and cortexs on things ;-)
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on May 17, 2017 20:27:46 GMT
Nothing says you can't take both kossites and pikemen with Strak2, and be out of theme!
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Post by sand20go on May 17, 2017 21:03:10 GMT
Nothing says you can't take both kossites and pikemen with Strak2, and be out of theme! Yes but....... I think that a serious strength of running the pikes is the countercharge precision strikers. With Strak2 arm buff you almost have to send it a large based model. When that can be countercharged and taken COMPLETELY out of action by precision strike that is a risky (at best) proposition.
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Post by DemonCalibre on May 17, 2017 22:06:09 GMT
I like Kossites in low model count lists that are slow, where I am really worried about contesting in Entrenched/The Pit Kossites do the job of contesting admirably.
One of the tricks if your focus is purely contesting is run the unit leader to contest and keep the rest of the unit out of formation in safety. If they don't kill the leader to make it so your kossites are useless because they are out of command great. If they kill the leader so the Kossites get back into command great.
it's been a good trick when I have done it.
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wags
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by wags on May 17, 2017 22:33:56 GMT
I personally don't think they are worth it. I think they need to be able to do some sort of work on their own as they will probably be out of range of most buffs from casters and in their current incarnation I just don't think they have the stats needed, that RAT 4 really hurts. Likewise while I get looking back at game states and wondering about different modules, I do wonder if something as janky as kossites would really have done what you wanted. Your opponent would know you have an ambushing unit and not necessarily leave support at board edges. Maybe forcing their support into different positions might've changed the game, I don't know. Worth considering that knowledge of kossites will likely change what your opponent does and if that change is worth having them in your list. In my personal opinion probably not, but why not give it a try and see.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on May 18, 2017 2:20:08 GMT
Sand, I'm not going to talk you out of it. Nope. I want battle reports. Since the Jaws theme came out. I've been rethinking the notion that 2X manhuters should be your free models, with the army including Yuri, Kossites, and all the assassins.
Now for a caster...
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Post by Cryptix on May 18, 2017 2:20:51 GMT
Painting that much leather should be a deterrent. *shudder*
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Post by Armchair Warrior on May 18, 2017 2:29:07 GMT
Painting that much leather should be a deterrent. *shudder* The thing is...I already have it all painted. Full unit of Kossites included.
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Post by Cryptix on May 18, 2017 2:39:07 GMT
Painting that much leather should be a deterrent. *shudder* The thing is...I already have it all painted. Full unit of Kossites included. You poor sweet damned soul.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on May 18, 2017 2:43:51 GMT
They're quite beautiful, actually. In this list, everything is patient except the caster... I'm not sure ithat it's a crap list, either.
War Room Army
Khador - Strak 2 Wolfpack
Theme: Jaws of the Wolf 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Assault Kommander Strakhov & Kommandos - WJ: +22 - Assault Kommander Strakhov & Kommandos (Cont.) - Conquest - PC: 37 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22) - Destroyer - PC: 14
Manhunter - PC: 0 Manhunter - PC: 0 Yuri the Axe - PC: 6
Kayazy Assassins - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Kayazy Assassin Underboss - PC: 4 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kossite Woodsmen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 11
THEME: Jaws of the Wolf ---
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Post by Cryptix on May 18, 2017 2:45:27 GMT
Never said anything about prettiness. But anything I can't edge highlight or shade easily = nope get that out of my face. Why do you think my winter guard are converted Cadians
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