isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634 
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Post by isotope on May 16, 2017 13:22:18 GMT
So I've never played Menoth. I've rarely played into them. I think I played into Vindictus once in MK2 and that's about it.
Some of the things I really like about the faction are all the "no spells" tech and beefy jacks ( coming from Ret where I pay a heavy price for jacks these things look like a steal). I really like incite ( I played Vayl1 in MK2 some), and Feora3 seems really cool to me. I don't really know what the Menoth community thinks of her since I'm not in any of the FB groups, etc.
From my little knowledge of Menoth I've cobbled together a F3 list I feel has some teeth to it:
Feora, the Conquering Flame - WJ: +27
- Hand of Judgment - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
- Indictor - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)
- Indictor - PC: 15
Avatar of Menoth - PC: 20
The Covenant of Menoth - PC: 0
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
Initiate Tristan Durant - PC: 0
- Reckoner - PC: 16
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard - Rhoven, Gius & Cassian: 9
Being able to have tristan and the reckoner sit back and take shots with the relative safety of the book and shield guards while Feora plays aggressive with 4 spell immune jacks ( BW on HoJ ) or 3 and herself if enemy has a strong spell assassination threat. Just to be sure, Vassal can give focus to Avatar if he isn't full? Redline gives you a good threat extender and some serious damage( especially under incite w/ battle and blessed) to start the piece trade.
I'm not quite sure what to pair this with ( probably something with a higher model count), casters who have caught my eye are:
Sevy1
Durant2 ( With BE + Bastions w/ IR, would that work?)
Kreoss1 ( possibly gunline in the new Errant theme?)
maybe something like this ? :
High Exemplar Kreoss - WJ: +29
- Fire of Salvation - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16)
- Redeemer - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
- Redeemer - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2)
- Reckoner - PC: 16
- Reckoner - PC: 16
Wrack - PC: 1
Exemplar Errant Seneschal - PC: 4
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
Exemplar Errants - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16
- Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard - Rhoven, Gius & Cassian: 9
Not sure if any of this sounds practical or not. Like I said, I've really never seen much Menoth.
Thanks for any advice, comments, criticisms!
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Post by dicebedamned on May 16, 2017 14:10:17 GMT
Hey there and welcome,
Easy one first, Vassals cannot give focus to the avatar, he does not have a cortex. He also does not benefit from powerup for the same reason.
As for the list:
I'm not sure I see the benefit of running Avatar with Feora3
I would like to see a pair of Redeemer on Tristian and run the Reckoner under Feora3 (use the Vassal to 'power' it up for boosted shots)
If your plan is to hang back with the guns, and send the other jacks forth, you may be better served by 2 min Choir than one max. They only have a CMD of 6 and so fitting all the jacks in hymn range gets a bit tight
For a pairing I would go with something that can attrition well, so Durant, or Harby with VoJ (CID)
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Ryilan
Guild Master 
Fighting heretics with vindaloo curry. Taste my spicy wrath!
Posts: 74
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Post by Ryilan on May 16, 2017 14:26:27 GMT
Easy one first, Vassals cannot give focus to the avatar, he does not have a cortex. He also does not benefit from powerup for the same reason. It is nowhere stated that the Vassal cannot give focus to a jack without a cortex. Warjacks with a crippled cortex cannot gain focus, but that's not the same as not having one. The Avatar's rules also don't mention him being unable to receive extra focus and I can't find anything in the errata that backs up your claim. I could be wrong though, so if you could show us where what you say is stated, i would appreciate it. Also, he does not benefit from power-up because he's not in a battlegroup. Ryilan |
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Post by shroomvolcano on May 16, 2017 14:27:43 GMT
"Vassals cannot give focus to the avatar"
Why not? Empower states "target Warjack gains a focus, and is no longer disrupted." The cortex just lets a 'Jack Power Up and have focus allocated from the Warcaster.
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Post by dicebedamned on May 16, 2017 15:00:20 GMT
Maybe I am wrong, perhaps I took the over simplification and never thought to check...
Does the avatar not have the 'Cannot gain Focus' rule?
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on May 16, 2017 15:18:57 GMT
Maybe I am wrong, perhaps I took the over simplification and never thought to check... Does the avatar not have the 'Cannot gain Focus' rule? It says "This model can have up to 4 focus at any time. During the focus allocation step of your Control Phase, this model receives d3+1 focus points" Then empower says Target FF WJ. Blah blah about disrupt "The warjack also gains 1 focus point". This lead me to believe that if you rolled poorly you could empower him. Under cortex rules it says "Remember, a warjack cannot gain or spend focus while its Cortex system is crippled" and "Crippled Cortex: The model loses any focus points on it and cannot gain or spend focus points for any reason." There is no mention of warjacks without a cortex not being able to gain focus outside of the control phase. |
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on May 16, 2017 15:56:52 GMT
Maybe I am wrong, perhaps I took the over simplification and never thought to check... Does the avatar not have the 'Cannot gain Focus' rule? It says "This model can have up to 4 focus at any time. During the focus allocation step of your Control Phase, this model receives d3+1 focus points" Then empower says Target FF WJ. Blah blah about disrupt "The warjack also gains 1 focus point". This lead me to believe that if you rolled poorly you could empower him. Under cortex rules it says "Remember, a warjack cannot gain or spend focus while its Cortex system is crippled" and "Crippled Cortex: The model loses any focus points on it and cannot gain or spend focus points for any reason." There is no mention of warjacks without a cortex not being able to gain focus outside of the control phase. I play a lot of Avatar. What you say here is 100% true. The Avatar can indeed be bumped up to four focus using Vassals |
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on May 16, 2017 16:09:01 GMT
This is true. This is also the same logic that lets the Avatar be Disrupted, which would be annoying if Disruption happened more regularly.
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Post by perilsensitive on May 16, 2017 16:55:37 GMT
I feel like F3 does more with less jacks. She doesn't want to cast Incite, upkeep a spell or two and allocate. I also think Redline is amazing on a Colossal, so that settled that debate for me. I also think that on her feat turn she can go deep and devastate enemy infantry with Daughters + Flame Trail. I ended up playing her as a more anti-infantry type caster in the Guardians theme with a Judicator.
For my pairing I wanted to get more experience running lots of infantry, try out the new Exemplar theme, and have a more anti-armor list so Vindictus was the easy choice there.
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Post by alanryan on May 16, 2017 23:50:02 GMT
I feel like F3 does more with less jacks. She doesn't want to cast Incite, upkeep a spell or two and allocate. I also think Redline is amazing on a Colossal, so that settled that debate for me. I also think that on her feat turn she can go deep and devastate enemy infantry with Daughters + Flame Trail. I ended up playing her as a more anti-infantry type caster in the Guardians theme with a Judicator. For my pairing I wanted to get more experience running lots of infantry, try out the new Exemplar theme, and have a more anti-armor list so Vindictus was the easy choice there. i have try f3 in guardian theme sometimes. her worst problem is, she haven't any useful effect to protect unit, and our unit is easy to kill and, incite is a very dangerous spell. so more times i just want she use redline and let one or two warjack charge and kill enemy but yesterday i have some other idea. maybe, use unit that didn't need protect is a good idea this is my yesterday frenzy idea list: War Room Army Protectorate of Menoth - Feora 3 Theme: Guardians of the Temple 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Effigy of Valor - Steamroller Objective Feora, the Conquering Flame - WJ: +27 - Hand of Judgment - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Devout - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Devout - PC: 9 Nicia, Tear of Vengeance - PC: 0 Pyrrhus, Flameguard Hero - PC: 0 Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1 Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1 Daughters of the Flame - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 Flame Bringers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 17 Temple Flameguard - Leader & 9 Grunts: 11 - Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 Temple Flameguard - Leader & 9 Grunts: 11 Temple Flameguard - Leader & 9 Grunts: 11 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 THEME: Guardians of the Temple --- GENERATED : 05/17/2017 07:46:58 BUILD ID : 2038.17-03-15 i didn't like judi because i think one warjack for 4pts choir is expensive, and i want my f3 have more shield guard, so this list is like this. ps19 free charge devout could kill most of heavy |
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Post by dicebedamned on May 17, 2017 12:04:20 GMT
It says "This model can have up to 4 focus at any time. During the focus allocation step of your Control Phase, this model receives d3+1 focus points" Then empower says Target FF WJ. Blah blah about disrupt "The warjack also gains 1 focus point". This lead me to believe that if you rolled poorly you could empower him. Under cortex rules it says "Remember, a warjack cannot gain or spend focus while its Cortex system is crippled" and "Crippled Cortex: The model loses any focus points on it and cannot gain or spend focus points for any reason." There is no mention of warjacks without a cortex not being able to gain focus outside of the control phase. I play a lot of Avatar. What you say here is 100% true. The Avatar can indeed be bumped up to four focus using Vassals Cool, learnt something new. Still wouldn't make me want to take him tho. Three lots of TFG? that is alot of infantry that will take your opponent ages to chew through, but will also be doing very little for you at the same time. Could be interesting if you plan to swamp the zones and scalpel out the opponent's scoring stuff. |
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Post by Vyngynce on May 17, 2017 14:17:01 GMT
Responding to the original F3ora list, I would caution against Indictors. Even with red line, you will be underwhelmed by their threat ranges. Add to this the fact that F3ora wants to get down the board quickly, speed 4 jacks are not a good pairing with her. So my recommendation would be Reckoners.
I think Avatar does pair well with F3ora because she doesn't want to give out a lot of focus. Avatar can also be PS 23 when battled and incited, and HoJ can be as well when battled, incited, and redlined.
Putting a Reckoner on Tristan is a little bit of a waste. Redeemers usually work out better, but they aren't the best with this list. If you really want to use an Indictor on this list, put it on Tristan and use it to hold zones. An armor 23 jack that can't be pushed, slammed, spelled, and the like is really good for scenario play. Honestly, that is basically all Indictors are good for, sadly. Another jack that is awesome on Tristan is the Templar. Again, armor 23 shield guards are pretty good.
Someone mentioned the Judicator. F3ora is one of our casters that really begs for the Revelator to come out.
In regards to running Flameguard with F3ora, the Daughters and the Flame Bringers are where it is at for her. F3ora is a frontline caster, so TFG don't make much sense with her.
No one has mentioned it yet, but the Exemplar theme is going to be good with F3ora, especially knights and possibly vengers. Knights getting up to PS 15 with weaponmaster and minifeat on top of that is disgusting.
In regards to pairings with the original list, you will need something that can clear infantry and maintain a lot of board presence. Your Kreoss1 list looks decent, because DW on Errants makes them stupid hard to remove while you get your guns in place. In my experience, the hardest thing to tech against is control feats like Haley2 or Coven. One of your lists has to be fast enough to deal with that.
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Post by alanryan on May 17, 2017 14:46:34 GMT
Responding to the original F3ora list, I would caution against Indictors. Even with red line, you will be underwhelmed by their threat ranges. Add to this the fact that F3ora wants to get down the board quickly, speed 4 jacks are not a good pairing with her. So my recommendation would be Reckoners. I think Avatar does pair well with F3ora because she doesn't want to give out a lot of focus. Avatar can also be PS 23 when battled and incited, and HoJ can be as well when battled, incited, and redlined. Putting a Reckoner on Tristan is a little bit of a waste. Redeemers usually work out better, but they aren't the best with this list. If you really want to use an Indictor on this list, put it on Tristan and use it to hold zones. An armor 23 jack that can't be pushed, slammed, spelled, and the like is really good for scenario play. Honestly, that is basically all Indictors are good for, sadly. Another jack that is awesome on Tristan is the Templar. Again, armor 23 shield guards are pretty good. Someone mentioned the Judicator. F3ora is one of our casters that really begs for the Revelator to come out. In regards to running Flameguard with F3ora, the Daughters and the Flame Bringers are where it is at for her. F3ora is a frontline caster, so TFG don't make much sense with her. No one has mentioned it yet, but the Exemplar theme is going to be good with F3ora, especially knights and possibly vengers. Knights getting up to PS 15 with weaponmaster and minifeat on top of that is disgusting. In regards to pairings with the original list, you will need something that can clear infantry and maintain a lot of board presence. Your Kreoss1 list looks decent, because DW on Errants makes them stupid hard to remove while you get your guns in place. In my experience, the hardest thing to tech against is control feats like Haley2 or Coven. One of your lists has to be fast enough to deal with that. i agree with don't use indictor, but i didn't think avater is good avater is too expensive. 20pts for 1 jack, and can't have redline. I Agree F3 need more focus, so i think sanctifier is a nice choice. 14pts, in battlegroup, and incite/redline could help its low pow melee weapon. conter incorprate is a good abilites too |
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on May 17, 2017 17:57:26 GMT
[...] I think Avatar does pair well with F3ora because she doesn't want to give out a lot of focus. Avatar can also be PS 23 when battled and incited, and HoJ can be as well when battled, incited, and redlined. [...] i agree with don't use indictor, but i didn't think avater is good avater is too expensive. 20pts for 1 jack, and can't have redline. I Agree F3 need more focus, so i think sanctifier is a nice choice. 14pts, in battlegroup, and incite/redline could help its low pow melee weapon. conter incorprate is a good abilites too I can get work done with him, but then I take him to bully infantry or low model count armies with Gaze. I'm not sure I'd use him with Feora3 though. Mostly because the incite bubble is too small for my liking. I still want to test it out though, make sure it works the way that I think that it does. |
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Post by Bad_Munkey on May 17, 2017 19:03:15 GMT
i agree with don't use indictor, but i didn't think avater is good avater is too expensive. 20pts for 1 jack, and can't have redline. I Agree F3 need more focus, so i think sanctifier is a nice choice. 14pts, in battlegroup, and incite/redline could help its low pow melee weapon. conter incorprate is a good abilites too I can get work done with him, but then I take him to bully infantry or low model count armies with Gaze. I'm not sure I'd use him with Feora3 though. Mostly because the incite bubble is too small for my liking. I still want to test it out though, make sure it works the way that I think that it does. You take him for the same reasons with F3ora, and he does really well with it, and is one of the better pieces of defensive tech out there for her, especially when using a unit of flamebringers to shield him. Don't worry about fitting him inside the incite bubble. Rather, forcus on him keeping the things off her that need to be kept away. |
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