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Post by russianoptomist on May 16, 2017 1:51:24 GMT
My local shop is talking about running a fun tournament, where we make two, 75point lists, with the worst casters in the faction. No real metric decided on yet as to what qualifies as "worst", though some factions have at least one obvious one (looking at you Blaize). What are ours? Butcher 2 jumps immediately to mind. After that, thought at the shop runs between Old Witch1 or either Zerkova. What are out bottom tier?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 16, 2017 1:58:07 GMT
Well, Butcher 2s badness comes at a roll of a die really. Zerkova 1 is pretty solid and works well, Zerkova 2 Needs more to be a successful caster.
So Zerkova 2 is a solid enough pick for a bad caster....The Old witch 1 struggles against jack heavy, so shes a solid pick as well.
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Post by Netherby on May 16, 2017 2:05:27 GMT
Butcher2.
The rest are actually fine. Z2 suffers from armour meta, but she isn't actually bad.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 16, 2017 2:29:58 GMT
The rest are actually fine. Z2 suffers from armour meta, but she isn't actually bad. My question with Z2 is what the hunk does she actually do? She has 2 Spells unique to her. One buffs magic, the other sucks and makes no sense. Her feat depends on having a varied amount of spells to cast which khador has some of the least of.
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Post by Cryptix on May 16, 2017 2:36:49 GMT
I've always seen Zerkova as ranged jack support - plenty of Stationary to go around, and double focus to boost attack + damage, or both damage rolls on decimators.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 16, 2017 2:44:41 GMT
I've always seen Zerkova as ranged jack support - plenty of Stationary to go around, and double focus to boost attack + damage, or both damage rolls on decimators. That's still very dubious. How many Ranged Jacks are you running that you can't fuel both Decimator Attacks? The stationary is at least an OK idea, but I find that it kinda breaks its own purpose. If your getting close enough to cause stationary, might as well just charge the target.
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Post by Cryptix on May 16, 2017 2:50:29 GMT
I've always seen Zerkova as ranged jack support - plenty of Stationary to go around, and double focus to boost attack + damage, or both damage rolls on decimators. That's still very dubious. How many Ranged Jacks are you running that you can't fuel both Decimator Attacks? The stationary is at least an OK idea, but I find that it kinda breaks its own purpose. If your getting close enough to cause stationary, might as well just charge the target. To each their own. I've had at least three caster assassinations this way, one against Sorscha1 herself.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 16, 2017 2:52:04 GMT
To each their own. I've had at least three caster assassinations this way, one against Sorscha1 herself. Im not saying you can't I'm just wondering the practicality of it relative to other similar options.
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Post by Cryptix on May 16, 2017 2:57:07 GMT
To each their own. I've had at least three caster assassinations this way, one against Sorscha1 herself. Im not saying you can't I'm just wondering the practicality of it relative to other similar options. If everything comes down to efficiency we don't have much fun. See Haley2 and Deneghra1.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 16, 2017 3:06:42 GMT
If everything comes down to efficiency we don't have much fun. See Haley2 and Deneghra1. Even in a fan way =P Like I use Harkevitch With Ranged stuff for fun.
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Post by Netherby on May 16, 2017 3:50:05 GMT
Z2 is pretty much built to run Outriders. If you aren't taking two units with her, you're probably doing it wrong She has a strong feat turn assassination with Outriders and arcing spells through a Telgesh Mark. I don't feel like her jack fuelling spell is particularly relevant most of the time. But it has some uses.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 16, 2017 3:56:24 GMT
Z2 is pretty much built to run Outriders. If you aren't taking two units with her, you're probably doing it wrong Sounds kinda Meh to me. They lack any hard hitting spells to deal with Armor. Seems like she depends on the caster being one of the easy to kill with A medium damage spell type, as well as lots of infantry being present. Too niche to me. Thats why I argue she's the worst in Khador. That's not necessarily awful, but too niche.
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Post by Netherby on May 16, 2017 6:55:57 GMT
You have to consider that Outriders are threatening 26" and hitting Def 16 on average rolls. Even Butcher will die to ten Pow 12s half the time and that isn't counting the damage Z2 can do herself. It's also very difficult to screen your caster against sprays.
I would say the biggest problem is actually that decent gun lines will kill your Outriders before they can do anything.
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Post by Netherby on May 16, 2017 6:58:09 GMT
To each their own. I've had at least three caster assassinations this way, one against Sorscha1 herself. I'm not sure how that's possible given Sorscha is immune to being made stationary and takes no damage from cold based spells...
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Post by skathrex on May 16, 2017 7:36:44 GMT
Well, thinking a bit on it and its really awkward in Khador because even our "bad" Casters aren't really bad.
But I will try to make a list of the suboptimal choices imo: 1. Old Witch1- This may have changed with Jaws etc. She isn't really bad, but is very focused on anti-Infantry. As an example if I would play Karchev into her I wouldn't be afraid what so ever, if I played Strakov2 LoS I would shit my pants. Thus, bad because not soo much infantry running around (although that is changing).
2. Sorscha2: She is awesome when you need rfp or face a lot of boxes, but feels a bit meh in every other Situation. Her feat brings her close to danger, which is not good and in every other aspect she feels like a worse version of Sorscha1.
3. Butcher2: The rnd factor. You want controll in a competetive Envirmoent. The rnd dice roll with a huge variance on your most important role is not a good thing. You can loose just because you rolled that 1 on the wrong moment. BUT he kills infantry en masse and has decent spells and feat. Honestly if they fix his rnd Focus hes good to go.
4. Zerkova2: She is pretty strong imo. Her main weakness is that she has a very distinct role which has limited support. I.e. she wants Units with Spells which there are not many of, thus she is another anti-infantry caster with spray-ponies. Additionally she is not really good in Theme. If she gets her Greylord theme she will be awesome though.
5. Malakov2: Many find him interesting, but I think he has a bit of an identity crisis. Everything list you can build with him will be better with another caster it feels like. That doesn't make him bad, just not that interesting for me.
Everything else is ok to really good. Even our humble Battlebox Caster Kozlov has gained a lot and is more than just a decent caster now.
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