Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on May 5, 2017 10:03:14 GMT
Another thing I struggle with when teaching is knowing how much information to give. My problem is that I start by telling my opponent what all of my stuff can do and highlighting things to watch for. I think even doing this in tournament games is not a problem, it's an open information game after all (for example "You remember you will trigger countercharge by moving here?"). I often do it and my opponents do too, regardless of experience difference. I find those games much more interesting tactically than those where one side just waits for another player to forget about something. It's just better to tell them beforehand and see how good strategy wins even when an opponent is fully informed about threats to his models.
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Post by macdaddy on May 5, 2017 11:23:38 GMT
Another thing I struggle with when teaching is knowing how much information to give. My problem is that I start by telling my opponent what all of my stuff can do and highlighting things to watch for. I think even doing this in tournament games is not a problem, it's an open information game after all (for example "You remember you will trigger countercharge by moving here?"). I often do it and my opponents do to, regardless of experience difference. I find those games much more interesting tactically than those where one side just waits for another player to forget about something. It's just better to tell them beforehand and see how good strategy wins even when an opponent is fully informed about threats to his models. To me consciously hiding something from your opponent and hoping he or she forgets rules so that you can win just feels wrong. I'm not saying it's unsportsmanlike or anything. But personally I would rather win knowing both myself and my opponent preformed the best to our ability in the game. Gotcha moments (silly good or bad dice rolling at pivotal points and forgetting something game altering (like acrobatics *sigh*) really take away from a win. Some players feels like I'm pulling teeth when I ask questions about threat or what a model does. You should never have to feel bad about asking questions (within reason of course) in fact I prefer my opponent question me often as it encourages me to be a better player, learn my rules, and keeps my brain focused on the game (because my brain is weird)
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Post by W0lfBane on May 5, 2017 11:52:34 GMT
Against new players i will constantly remind them of gotcha moments but against experienced people not so much. I remind them the first time they go into a gotcha but if they keep making the same mistake several times. Like making a mistake once or twice is ok but doing it multiple times is just taking advantage of my good nature or they just really don't learn.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 5, 2017 13:16:37 GMT
against new players I will try to explain to them what the best thing to do is and why, running through their options and the general principles of the match up we are playing. I feel like if you deliberately play like a muppet they might get the impression that what they are doing is good, and when they come across someone who is not pulling punches, will get rofl stomped and they won't know why.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on May 5, 2017 13:47:37 GMT
TLDR: I struggle with the teaching side of this all the time. Good intentions don't always get me there. Executing the actual teaching is not always easy for me. In the end, it really helps to debrief with my opponent afterwards. my 2cents on a few points - If you feel like you flood them with info: try to only ask questions if they are floundering. If they are moving pieces confidently let them go, if it goes poorly that's learning too. - if they start moving into a bad position, say counter charge range, just point to your model. They'll either say "yeah I know" or ask "What?" then you remind them. Let them be the one to initiate the flow of information - Let them reroll dice sometimes. Doesn't have to be every roll or even more than once a game. But try not to let their dice ruin their game. I myself am a bit over generous in that respect, in a learning game I do two things. I usual reroll double ones for them. Or if they miss by one on an blatantly average roll on an important move that could decide the game, I give it to them. I want them to learn the full capacity of their tool box. not that dice are BS at the worst moments. (though that is something everyone will learn eventually) - Teaching isn't easy. But trying to teach is a big deal. Players will come back to you to ask new questions, help create lists, complain about how they messed up, etc. You can't teach them everything in one go but you keep teaching them over a period of time if you make a friend.
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Post by mallios on May 5, 2017 16:28:09 GMT
If you feel like you flood them with info: try to only ask questions if they are floundering. If they are moving pieces confidently let them go, if it goes poorly that's learning too. I try to avoid discussing their thoughts with them while moving if they appear to be doing it with intent. I ask what they are thinking if they pause for a little while, but otherwise let them go. I don't want them to be so cautious that they ask me before doing anything. I try to make a mental note of mistakes to go over at the end with them.
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