gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Jun 24, 2019 18:58:03 GMT
I've seen leagues before, and scrums before, but they mention a few key differences here. I think the most important is the "more than just store locations and hours to play" and why that's so important to so many players. I'm actually playing in it weekly, but until I listened to this I didn't actually realize a lot of WHY it worked so much better than other leagues. But even if the scrum format isn't for you, the over-arching theme is still that of "build your community"... Rather than wait for Privateer Press to "fix it" I thought social connecting and the inclusion of others was the point of the league. Isn't it just a vehicle to make friends and go to events and watch marvel movies together or have grilling days while painting? I don't think you guys are doing anything that is beyond what the norm is honestly. In fact, the social gathering, like everyone going out for dinner at the end of the league, or hitting some shitty fast food when the game play is done on game night, i mean, I guess i just assumed everyone else did these things by default. Sorry if i am being obtuse. Maybe? It's hard to say what other people experience. All I can say is what the WMHD scene was like here before the scrum started and what it's like now, after. It's night and day. I'm convinced it's the format. The interest in Steamrollers has gone up a bit too, but the vast majority of the players still just do scrum games. Often the only games they ever get are scrum games. So I always go back to the format and the dedication to it that makes it successful.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Jun 24, 2019 17:49:25 GMT
I've seen leagues before, and scrums before, but they mention a few key differences here. I think the most important is the "more than just store locations and hours to play" and why that's so important to so many players. I'm actually playing in it weekly, but until I listened to this I didn't actually realize a lot of WHY it worked so much better than other leagues. But even if the scrum format isn't for you, the over-arching theme is still that of "build your community"... Rather than wait for Privateer Press to "fix it" The thing I admire Mark for is his willingness to host a bunch of games at his house. To me, that is by far the biggest boost over other areas: an individual that loves his community so much he is willing to open his home to them. It does a lot, though when it first started most of the games were taking place at an LGS that had happened to be open late. And a lot of folks in the area pool their "basement tables" for folks to play on. Plus LGSes still see a lot of our games. I'd say roughly half of the games are played at Mark's place, plus a crazy amount of pickup and casual games too. As a community builder, he's very "all in".
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Jun 24, 2019 17:41:29 GMT
So, set up a scrum league, and play it. so, your advice on how to fix the game in a community where it's dead is to set up a league and play it. This was a waste of an hour and fifteen minutes. Humorous, and I loved to hear the passion about the game, but ultimately, this didn't have anything new or useful. sorry to be harsh. Everyone I know in my same boat has already tried the "league revival" strategy. I was hoping for more than that. I appreciate the thought though. I've seen leagues before, and scrums before, but they mention a few key differences here. I think the most important is the "more than just store locations and hours to play" and why that's so important to so many players. I'm actually playing in it weekly, but until I listened to this I didn't actually realize a lot of WHY it worked so much better than other leagues. But even if the scrum format isn't for you, the over-arching theme is still that of "build your community"... Rather than wait for Privateer Press to "fix it"
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Jun 24, 2019 17:32:41 GMT
Interesting... while the post is clickbaity and the podcast (like most WMH podcasts) is about twice as long as it needs to be, a scrum is a good idea and tips on how to run one are good. I’m not sure whether or not this is something that I would be interested in running or attending, but it might be interesting to do something like alternate scrums and journeyman or narrative leagues. I like the idea of reconsidering prizes. I’ve been thinking a bit lately about prize structures for hobby events. It can get difficult to balance because winning stuff is nice, but if there are some players who are much more competitive than others, it can feel like at tournaments, the same people are taking everyone’s lunch money all the time. As for drunkmachine, I will take a pass on events like that. I think there is a weird and unhealthy obsession with alcohol (over?)consumption as part of the Warmachine community, which I suspect has to do with performative masculinity in the very dudebro culture of WMH. I mean, I like beer too, but sometimes the culture in WMH feels like 19 year olds for whom it just became legal and the novelty hasn’t worn off yet. Personally, I passed that phase about 10 years ago, so... I’d rather just play Warmachine and have a beer on one corner of the table that I am drinking at a reasonable pace than get completely sloshed and try playing against someone who is also completely sloshed. Yeah, if I had thought about it I'd have given specific times to listen to. Though I will say the drunkmachine part of the league adds a huge social aspect to the community, making it about more than competitive-ness, which again helps keep people invested. I think part of why it's getting talked about as much as it is right now is that we have a bunch of tournament players flying in from Canada to join us. I actually think it's going to be a ship show but... Really depends on what you are looking for. Knowing a lot of the folks in the scrum, drinking is a big thing for them. I'd say it's about half. "Dudebro" is a gross mis-estimation though in our case, though I definitely would see why you would think it. There are FAR too many social misfits in the league for the word "dudebro" to apply well here, at least my subjective definition.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Jun 24, 2019 15:16:06 GMT
If you want to ask a specific question about the the scrum, I'd be happy to answer. Such as how do we handle mid-scrum rules updates, or rules disputes, or delayed games... So I have a question. How do you encourage players to finish playing out their games for all rounds of the league? Based on your praise for scrums I saw a few months back I decided to give it a go. We played one game a week where it was preferred that players come to game night at the shop but they could also arrange games for other nights/locations to better suit their schedules. The first one went great and I think we had 8-10 people participate in the league. Another month or two later I ran a second one and only had 6 people participate and found a lot of people didn't finish out all of their games. In both cases people would show up in force for the first week and then slowly stop coming if it they lost a game or two. I just wasn't able to figure out how to sustain within momentum within a single scrum cycle let alone between separate ones. Well, players cancelling their games has been a big issue with the scrum in the past. We've tried to address it four ways: 1. Making play spaces more abundant and accessible. Not just during store hours. Podcast goes into greater detail on this and why it's so important. 2. No prizes or entry fees. The games themselves, as well as bragging rights, becomes the motivation for playing. So even if you can't win the scrum, you still want to play because the games were your motivation going in. 3. Massive points break downs posted at the end. So you can see exactly what place out of 30+ you came in. I've never won but I struggle every game to do my best because I will totally still push for 6th and 7th place. This has a double purpose of watching underdogs and watching newbies come up over time. Plus the usual faction analysis, like "wow, all the Skorne players won again" 4. Each league serves as a qualifier for our annual steam roller (referred to as the BBQ Brawl in the podcast). Top 3 players from each scrum qualify, but if they have already qualified, it trickles down to the next highest place, etc. Perfect example: I have never come in top 3 but I play every game as invested as I can, coming in 5th or 6th sometimes. As a result, I'm going to be in the annual steamroller (where I will get CRUSHED and it will be awesome). In other words, you are always incentivized each scrum to do your best because you still can get rewards out of it. 5. Over time, the players who consistently dropped their matches are called out and eventually not invited back. It's happened a few times. This was only an option though after we got enough players that we could afford to do this. 6. Model sharing and mentoring. Does your army suck? Here, borrow mine until you get your own models or your CID drops. Can you not figure it how to win with Blindwater? Well there are 2 other Minions players who do much better. Try watching their games. I know from my own experience, my skill level has dramatically improved by watching and talking with the other Skorne players. This in turn helps keep me invested in the scrum and not dropping early.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Jun 24, 2019 13:54:00 GMT
Wow.
So basically I could rename the General Discussion board as the "Woe Is My Meta, Doom and Gloom" board. So you would think that a podcast that details how to fix that would be well received?
Instead, this. If you can't be bothered to listen to 1 hour of a success story of a dead meta turned most vibrant in the USA... The problems run far deeper than I imagined.
So I'm not going to summarize the podcast. I wouldn't do it justice. The intricacies and unexpected rewards of the Scrum format are too many to list. And I didn't sit there and take notes. If you want to ask a specific question about the the scrum, I'd be happy to answer. Such as how do we handle mid-scrum rules updates, or rules disputes, or delayed games...
It's not click bait. No one is earning money on this. There are no advertisements. There's no get rich quick scheme here. I'm sorry if that is somehow what you took away from this. That was never the intent.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Jun 21, 2019 15:35:26 GMT
museonminis.com/fully-boosted-episode-111/Seriously, our meta was 8 players if we were lucky. Now it's like 40. This podcast describes how we did it. For those of you who listen and have questions, I've been a part of this from the beginning, so I can answer any questions you have if you like.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Jun 17, 2019 13:40:45 GMT
So far the hardest counters I've found into Zaal2 Exalted is sprays, especially if they deliver corrosion or fire. The sprays are used to snipe out the Novitiates and UAs. Also Marauder spam is good for dealing with double Supreme, but they need a way to clear the Immortals that block for it. So far the hardest game I've had was into Crucible Guard. They have so many debuffs that deny tough, lower your armor, get additional damage dice vs constructs, and apply corrosion, etc... It seems custom built to crush our statues If you position correctly sprays (not magic attack sprays) should not be able to snipe out the UA's as they have sack pawn Right. Then the second and third sprays happen...
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Jun 17, 2019 13:25:03 GMT
So far the hardest counters I've found into Zaal2 Exalted is sprays, especially if they deliver corrosion or fire. The sprays are used to snipe out the Novitiates and UAs. Also Marauder spam is good for dealing with double Supreme, but they need a way to clear the Immortals that block for it.
So far the hardest game I've had was into Crucible Guard. They have so many debuffs that deny tough, lower your armor, get additional damage dice vs constructs, and apply corrosion, etc... It seems custom built to crush our statues
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on May 6, 2019 15:01:04 GMT
So I guess I would identify what you think you would like to be "fun" about playing Legion? Spd? Ignoring rules with Pathfinder/Eyeless Sight? Shooting? Just putting cool looking models on the table?
To me, that list is well rounded but does not much that other lists out there don't already do and better, while it doesn't contain the Legion unique elements that I enjoy: Speed, Seraphs, and Hellmouths. But what you want from a Legion list and what I want probably differ
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Apr 30, 2019 16:28:43 GMT
Usually if you are tempted to go without a theme, it's because the existing themes to use your models aren't any good: see Legion.
But then you also need to factor in the competitive edge you lose by not getting free points when you play against well-tuned themes, like Black Industries or Exemplar Interdiction, who don't sufferb much at all for the models they lose access to when playing with a theme. In the end, you will always end up fighting an uphill battle. So really you just shouldn't be playing the combination of models that requires going theme-less if you want to be playing on the same competitive level as a themed list.
In other words, play only well-tuned themes unless you don't care about playing with a large competitive handicap.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Apr 25, 2019 15:31:54 GMT
Drop a Ravagore and some minor stuff for Proteus. Access to Grievous Wounds and Pull and his animus under her feat is excellent
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Apr 23, 2019 14:32:45 GMT
I think you are all forgetting our second cavalry unit: Derples!
They have the damage output and field presence of a unit, and there are at least 5 creatures in this "unit".
But in all seriousness, if I were to fluff out a new cav-anything for Skorne, it should emphasize the way Paingivers "condition" the beasts in their empire. Restrained with lashes and hooks, possibly muzzled, etc.
I would like to see an "ultra-heavy" cav unit. Slow (for Cav, spd 6), with very strong impact attacks, charge attacks, and resiliency. The real world equivalent would be elephant cavalry.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Apr 17, 2019 18:03:03 GMT
So if I wanted to really give Legion a minions theme, I would focus on the corrupting influence of the blight.
I think there is no better representation of this then Incubi. I would double down on them some how. Maybe let them spawn from enemy warrior models? Maybe let them spawn from friendly (not not faction) models? Probably both, really. They would need to be free choice, same as they are in CotD.
Theme would include: Minion units (any number) Blighted Rotwings Spawning Vessel Incubi Succubus Hellmouth Forsaken Non-character warbeasts
Warrior Units would count towards freebies, 1/20 points. Free choices: Solos and Spawning Vessels. Incubus in this army treat all living warrior models as friendly faction warrior models and can spawn whenever they are destroyed (no longer restricted to enemy attacks).
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Apr 11, 2019 18:56:45 GMT
Feels like they aren't faster than other beasts, can't hit harder than other beasts, can't tank better than other beasts, really "anything" better than other beasts. Maybe if it weren't so relatively easy for other factions to circumvent cloud walls and stealth, but...
I have other wondered what would happen if they went back to spd 6
|
|