gordo
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Post by gordo on Jul 22, 2019 1:21:30 GMT
From what I've seen, Rasheth lists are based on the idea that you force them to come to you with ranged attacks and spell slinging from a far. Then when they get to you, pop feat and make it work for you twice. You usually end up giving the opponent a control point lead as a result.
Lists always have 2 Siege Turtles, good Eyeless Sight source, and a means of channeling spells. Lately I've been seeing Supreme Guardian mixed in to bring back the dudes you kill when channeling.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Jul 18, 2019 16:21:55 GMT
Will this replace Imperial Warhost? Our current "beast theme", with Molik Karn and Hyper Aggressive + 2" deployment zone theme benefits. This new DoA theme seems better from what it was, but would be a huge downgrade for Imperial Warhost. Hoping we'll see both, not condensed. Replaces IWH entirely. From an IWH perspective, it loses Hyper Aggressive and 2" deployment and access to the SG. In return, it gains sac pawn and Minions access. It retains is previous free choices as well as gains the ones from DoA. It's mostly better now. Simply access to units makes a huge difference, and Bloodrunners are fantastic troops. Unlimited Minion access gives it lots of options too, and Taskmasters make Minions decent. It's a "big deal" if your IWH list used SGs. Playing without Hyper Aggressive is fine though. Also using Hyper Aggressive with a shield guarding Tibbers was kind of mean...
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Jul 12, 2019 12:30:48 GMT
That's excellent. Tactician is a crazy good benefit.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
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Post by gordo on Jul 10, 2019 20:22:33 GMT
you are wrong. new ravens is awesome. It's much better. I still don't see much reason to play it over Primal Terrors but it's now a fully functional theme. If you played it and never Primal Terrors I don't think it would be much of a handicap. I was honestly way more concerned about Oracles and CotD. I never hated Ravens as much as everyone else did. But if they buff those like they did Ravens, they will probably be just fine and my concerns unfounded.
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gordo
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My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Jul 9, 2019 14:36:03 GMT
My personnal bets: - we don't get an insider overview because PP forgot about Legion. - we somehow get less viable choices post-reform. Maybe one less theme, or less free stuff (eg no more free hellmouth and sorceress). - we get some totally useless stuff as a compensation. Like, grots getting natural ambush or shit like that. Maybe free scather crew. That would be fun. I mean, I hope I'm wrong, but those seem the natural outcome of what I've seen/read so far. I'm excited for literally every other faction but Legion. I see this making their bad themes better, but not even close to good enough. Hopefully I'm wrong. Oh yeah, and I already heard they want to nerf Hellmouths in some way. So that's happening.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Jul 7, 2019 5:30:52 GMT
So the real issue here is: how do you make people play any theme over Primal Terrors? What is Primal Terrors lacking that is worth the loss of Hellmouths? Better question: what benefits could possibly make Legion warbeasts desirable when you don't have access to Hellmouths? According to Hungerford, theyre looking into Primal Terrors and Hellmouth nerfs, maybe point increases or removing them from the requisition list. They probably agree with you and think the Hellmouth is over performing. If its 7 points and no longer free, do u think that frees up the other lists to shine? Remembering the beginning of mk3, I think without the Hellmouth, Legion war beasts are dead weight. I think that has not changed. They still suck. So... Unless they make Legion war beasts good somewhere, lists without the Hellmouth will not get played because they have roughly 25+ points of garbage. Which means only Primal Terrors is going to be played. So business as usual.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Jul 6, 2019 21:15:02 GMT
So the real issue here is: how do you make people play any theme over Primal Terrors? What is Primal Terrors lacking that is worth the loss of Hellmouths?
Better question: what benefits could possibly make Legion warbeasts desirable when you don't have access to Hellmouths?
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gordo
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My star is green?
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Post by gordo on Jun 28, 2019 20:13:27 GMT
It's more, "They are in the wrong because I want X, and they refuse to provide X." They CAN provide X, they just deliberately choose not to. Since they choose not to, I can place the blame on them since it takes (at least) two to play a game, and the other party will only play one way only. Why not introduce new players, then? The only community where I live doesn't accept new players, so I'm going to have to establish one from scratch. Tougher here, too, there's no wargame support in stores. Doesn't accept new players? Like, are they simply not taking the time to ease newer players in? Or do they literally not actually allow new players in, turning them away at the door, etc?
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Jun 26, 2019 13:59:11 GMT
... Also no more hills! Because reasons! I asked about the reasons. They are as follows: 1) Hill and elevation rules were confusing, even for experienced players. Questions about hills/elevation were the most common reason for a judge call, apparently. 2) Elevation granted Arcing Fire, essentially. But there’s already a rule for that, called Arcing Fire. Getting rid of hills prevents everything from possibly having Arcing Fire. 3) Hills caused physical problems during gameplay; stuff falls off hills. (I contend that well-made hills solve that problem 90% of the time, but whatever...) (begin editiorializing) Hills were basically the major argument for 2D terrain, with said arguments being, basically, “I don’t want my models to fall over” and “I can’t get my micrometer-precise tournament measurements easily if there’s a hill”. No hills means those arguments carry less weight. Maybe we’ll all start seeing pretty 3D terrain again instead of ugly paper-doll flat blandness... (end editorial) Will players still use hills on their tables for purely scenic purposes? Maybe. I didn’t buy that when it was posited. Heck, we have a bunch of terrain types that are perfectly legal that a lot of players seem to hate using (how frequently do you see people willingly reaching for burning earth or shallow water or rolling fog?), so I can’t imagine those same players saying “Let’s add this completely superfluous piece of terrain because it looks pretty.” But...whatever. Interesting. Our meta regularly uses shallow water, burning earth, and rolling fog in our tables. Pretty much every game always has at least one water feature, though sometimes it's an acid pool, and usually at least one of burning Earth or fog bank. They make the game more fun. Always confused me that people didn't use them. I think part of the reason is that we all have forsaken 3D terrain. Like, entirely. And if you buy all the pretty "mousepad" terrain, which we do, it's much easier to find all the weirder elements like acid pools and fog banks etc. As for why we forsook 3D terrain, our meta doesn't play in stores very often, so the flat terrain is much easier to obtain, store, and transport.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Jun 26, 2019 13:26:27 GMT
I've also heard that all 2" to deployment, +1 to go first, etc type benefits will be removed as well.
Also no more hills! Because reasons!
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Jun 26, 2019 2:41:01 GMT
What is it about the "Extremerollers" that bothers you? They don't play anything but 75 pt Steamroller scenarios. This makes it hard for new players to get caught up or for more casual players to get in optional games. They tend to be the biggest block to growing a meta. Weirdly those "Steamroller" traits have been integral in growing our meta. I think some of it is in how they are approached, as well as what the players in your area are craving. I think some of what happened is that all the players who wanted something more "casual" turned to other games. Age of Sigmar and Guildball would have made pretty significant dents into our player base if we tried to compete with them on their same strengths. We didn't try and make our games "easy" or "narrative". There were already better games for people seeking that kind of gameplay. So we doubled down on what WMHD did really well: top end competitive play. At least, I think that's where I think WMHD works... Guildball almost had me except sports and boring. But the actual gameplay and rules I think are pretty strong. Or were, last I played. WMHD pulled me in when Warhammer Fantasy imploded and nothing else stepped in to fill the void. I still think it fills that particular niche like nothing else. But at the same time, we never want to do that at the expense of alienating other people. Pretty much most games that we play that aren't actual scrum games are played with a clock... Until the time runs out, and then we keep playing until the game ends otherwise. We try and create an environment where everyone is struggling and encouraged to improve their play. This pursuit is part of the fun. Mentoring is pretty important to the group. I think it's a byproduct of the scrum format, and I think the relaxed time format makes it possible. Speaking from personal experience, I used to DESPISE playing on the clock. It was the opposite of fun to me... But after enough play, I won't pay without it. Keeps me honest, teaches me to think on our feet, etc... But it took a lot of help and mentoring from others to get me to this point. What I once looked at as a "barrier to entry" is now I think one of the strongest parts of our play.
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gordo
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My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Jun 25, 2019 21:33:15 GMT
Heh, "normal store hours" for the two biggest LGS in my metropolis end at 10pm except for Friday & Saturday at Midnight, and 6pm on Sunday. And most will allow games to finish up. Still that doesn't change the fact that the Extremerollers dominate the scene. What is it about the "Extremerollers" that bothers you?
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Jun 25, 2019 13:50:43 GMT
The thing I admire Mark for is his willingness to host a bunch of games at his house. To me, that is by far the biggest boost over other areas: an individual that loves his community so much he is willing to open his home to them. This is what stood out to me in the podcast as well (I listened to about half). Hosted in a house, 4+ tables. People come over even if host is not playing! Some will be strangers just looking for a game, and others will enjoy hanging out together. That is incredible community building, and much more personal than a store/business building. Not every community will have hosts like that, and maybe you struck gold in a way that is hard to replicate, but kudos on your successes : ) Thanks for sharing the podcast. Yeah, the availability after normal store hours makes a huge difference for a lot of players.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Jun 25, 2019 12:42:09 GMT
Think about every it will do for Jr war casters, lesser warlocks, and Jack marshalling. No longer will any points spent on their warnouns in an infantry theme cost you additional points.
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gordo
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My star is green?
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Post by gordo on Jun 24, 2019 20:45:53 GMT
It makes a HUGE difference. Think about what it does for Children of the Dragon. Or for Heavy Metal. Or Jaws of the Wolf. Suddenly including units of Kayazy doesn't cost you another 4 points in missed freebies. Same for Sword Knights. And Children of the Dragon suddenly can play Nyss infantry without being penalized.
Casters can now truly play mixed arms lists without playing at a points disadvantage.
Plus minions and merc units! You can put them in your list without eating into your "non freebie points generating budget"
They really should have had it this way from the beginning but... Anyway, it's pretty damn exciting.
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