gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Local JML
Sept 4, 2019 18:00:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by gordo on Sept 4, 2019 18:00:31 GMT
Ok, I'm writing three lists.
First is Hydra, no turtles. I run something very similar to it, but I swap Titans for Turtles. It's probably the closest to what you want, as it shuts down shooting very hard, hits like a truck, and still has some shooting in the form of a Hydra (whose sprays are insane on feat turn and amazing and add crazy versatility to your list). Minions choices center in the idea of "you will not shut down my Hydra no matter how hard you try"
The second is double turtle. It speaks for itself. The thing to remember here is you usually don't even need to fill up the turtles yourself as the enemy will listen do that for you with shooting. I usually manage two turtles with only one min unit of Painalgivers. This whole list doesn't quite sit with your initial vision, but I figured I'd would put it in there. It's pretty versatile too. Double Valkyries again help you shut down shooting hard.
Third list is basically braindead easy to play but will have real problems with Incorporeal and its total reliance on melee to get things done. It's not as good as the other lists... But it really helps you double down on the brick idea you liked and the Bronzeback.
Lists to follow
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Local JML
Sept 4, 2019 13:53:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by gordo on Sept 4, 2019 13:53:54 GMT
I think a Titan list without a Gladiator is crazy talk. Here is what I would run: War Room Army Skorne - 25 jml Theme: Disciples of Agony 25 / 25 Army Xerxis, Fury of Halaak - WB: +28 - Bronzeback Titan - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Titan Gladiator - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Basilisk Krea - PC: 0 - Agonizer - PC: 6 - Archidon - PC: 10 Paingiver Beast Handlers - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5 THEME: Disciples of Agony --- GENERATED : 09/03/2019 09:20:33 BUILD ID : 2089.19-07-18 Since it's a JML you will need the list to work against multiple types, and having both the Krea and Agonizer will help there. Things to note: Agonizer has the Titan keyword, so the BB will help manage his fury. Archidon on feat turn is a pitching machine. Learn those mechanics well, it's very strong. Archidon with Ignite punches well above his weight class and threats 15" with Rush, plus he can still use Lightning Strike after to Sprint away. Titan Gladiator hits very hard while appearing to only be a support beast thanks to its animus. His slamming should not be overlooked either. Paralysis effect can not be shaken and no one living is immune to it. It's very strong against Gargantuans and Siege Turtles and non-Circle Hordes opponents. Thanks! These are amazing tips. A few questions came up though. How would you progress further (list at 75points), is tiberion worth its points compared to a sentry? And how is your first turn looking, who gets which buffs, I assume the archidon gets ignite and the bronzeback rapport? One guy from our meta plays Kreoss3 in the new theme with vengers, I fear those charges with all the buff stacking... Well, a 75 point X2 list is very different. What is your list goal like? Are there models you don't ever want to run or is there a theme you are looking for? For example, most X2 lists include 2 Siege Animantarax. But that model is prohibitive for some players. So before I can write your 75 pointer, what are your personal restrictions? It's okay to ask for multiple list types Prereq: always always always go first if you can. The general strategy here is get as far up the board as fast as you can that he can not get to any scenario pieces for scoring without getting in range of your brick. As for my first turn: I see if I need ranged defense or not this game, an if I need it turn 1 (since I can be running things pretty far, itc often happens that I do actually need it on turn 1, especially if I go 2nd). Then I either run my Krea (if I don't need Force Aura) or Charge and Force Aura (or sometimes only walk and Force Aura). His final position determines where everything else goes, and also determines if X2 will have the fury left to cast both his upkeeps, needs to cast Force Aura himself, or needs to hold onto to fury to camp. Then I run the Bronzeback into position near him. I also do a quick calculation of my opponent's shooting here. If I think he can't kill the BB in one turn without the Force Aura benefits, I remember this because I can use Hyper-Aggressive on him to move within 10-12" of my opponent when he gets shot. Then I run the Agonizer into position, almost directly behind him. Fury drops off for free! At this point sometimes I activate my Gladiator because I may want to give Rush to my Archidon. Then I hopefully run, charge, or slam (Gladiator slams for free!) to get him into position within BBs command range and within 3" of Krea (if shooting is concern) Then I look at my opponent and see if I need armor cracking or accuracy (example: is my opponent playing Circle or is he playing Menoth). Then I give the Archidon Rapport or Ignite, depending on what I need. Because he has your first wave of piece trading. At 15" and flight he threatens so much it's silly. Great places are inside a forest, or behind a building (either hugging the corner so gets the cover bonus to defense but can still see around to charge some things, or in the middle so that he can threaten 12" walking from that point after being rushed). 4 out of 5 times I give him Ignite. If I do, I give Rapport to my Gladiator. He turns into a mini-BB at that point and it let's him him spread out further and apply Rush from further away. Then I trample X2 for the extra 3" or walk him into position (depending on activation order I may have to cast rapport after trampling/walking, but as long as I don't charge this is fine) Paingivers run after that. Thanks to the BB leadership I hopefully won't have to apply any medication from them to manage fury. Calculate this all ahead of time if you to because it's horrifying if your beasts frenzy at this point. If you won't have the fury then someone needs to not charge/trample/animus. General strategy after this: Remember you can cast your upkeeps later and hot-swap them as needed. This comes up a lot with Rapport to get your Titans and to be forced outside of your control area. It comes up decently with Ignite to help your Titans punch down big beefy Bois. On feat turn, an Ignited, Enraged, free-charging BB can take down just about anything. Usually it's overkill too, so don't fret about not being able to get your Painalgivers into position all the time. X2 can do a lot of work himself into light and medium targets, but he very rarely can take down a heavy that isn't already damaged, even on his feat turn. But boy oh boy does he crush infantry. Cavalry rules for boosted charges and huge based impact hits, trampling for taking out light infantry. Also your impact hits knockdown thanks to his mount, great way to get your other bois accuracy. Just remember impact attacks hit friendlies, so keep him more than 0.5" away from friendly models when making them. Also never forget that you can walk up and mount-pitch enemy models out of scenario elements when you need to. Also Sprint gets him away safely a lot. Usually an X2 list is out numbered and you will need X2 to pull his weight. Also, Stranglehold is an amazing spell, especially on colossals, gargantuans, and battle engines. On feat turn you can usually cast it and damage with only having to boost one of your two rolls. That's it for now. Once you have an idea of your list restrictions I can post a couple 75 pointers for ya.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Local JML
Sept 3, 2019 13:29:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by gordo on Sept 3, 2019 13:29:20 GMT
I think a Titan list without a Gladiator is crazy talk. Here is what I would run:
War Room Army
Skorne - 25 jml
Theme: Disciples of Agony 25 / 25 Army
Xerxis, Fury of Halaak - WB: +28 - Bronzeback Titan - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Titan Gladiator - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Basilisk Krea - PC: 0 - Agonizer - PC: 6 - Archidon - PC: 10
Paingiver Beast Handlers - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5
THEME: Disciples of Agony ---
GENERATED : 09/03/2019 09:20:33 BUILD ID : 2089.19-07-18
Since it's a JML you will need the list to work against multiple types, and having both the Krea and Agonizer will help there. Things to note:
Agonizer has the Titan keyword, so the BB will help manage his fury. Archidon on feat turn is a pitching machine. Learn those mechanics well, it's very strong. Archidon with Ignite punches well above his weight class and threats 15" with Rush, plus he can still use Lightning Strike after to Sprint away. Titan Gladiator hits very hard while appearing to only be a support beast thanks to its animus. His slamming should not be overlooked either. Paralysis effect can not be shaken and no one living is immune to it. It's very strong against Gargantuans and Siege Turtles and non-Circle Hordes opponents.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Aug 27, 2019 21:20:38 GMT
I'm used to seeing him with Tridents and only a couple jacks, which really aren't that dangerous when they can't slam your huge base. Wasting jack shots on your stealth guys is even better. As for Mortality, if you have SGs in your list, he has to end within 17" to use it (no witch Mark). In fact, thanks to Flying High, he has to end within 16" tov shoot you. Your Archangels threaten 18" with their shooting. Meanwhile you have Blightblades ambushing in to jam his shooting elements and squeeze him to the center. Some Garyth players bring an arc node. Some Garyth players bring Sylys. Even if it's just walking 7", casting mortality at at a target 10" away (17" total threat), then re-positioning 5" back, that can sometimes be a problem. Oh it's a huge problem. But it's a problem that 2 Archangels can answer pretty well. And that answer is lighting him in fire.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Aug 26, 2019 15:51:12 GMT
Yeah, the Arc node screws you. All the Gary players on my area tell me never play with one but I disagree. And your situation explains why. Can you run Orin? No you can't. Damn... Take out the arc node? He only has the one and you have plenty that can get him from range as well as jam it.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Aug 26, 2019 15:35:33 GMT
Yeah, the Arc node screws you. All the Gary players on my area tell me never play with one but I disagree. And your situation explains why. Can you run Orin?
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Aug 26, 2019 15:07:27 GMT
I'm used to seeing him with Tridents and only a couple jacks, which really aren't that dangerous when they can't slam your huge base. Wasting jack shots on your stealth guys is even better.
As for Mortality, if you have SGs in your list, he has to end within 17" to use it (no witch Mark). In fact, thanks to Flying High, he has to end within 16" tov shoot you. Your Archangels threaten 18" with their shooting.
Meanwhile you have Blightblades ambushing in to jam his shooting elements and squeeze him to the center.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Aug 26, 2019 13:12:31 GMT
If you want to beat Gary2, you really need to capitalize on what he can't handle:
Stealth Big, beefy targets he can't hurt much on his feat (because it's only one target) Anything that reduces his range, like Flying High on Archangel.
So, given that... War Room Army
Legion of Everblight - Abby Hates Gary
Theme: Ravens of War 75 / 75 Army
Absylonia, Terror of Everblight - WB: +31 - Archangel - PC: 35 (Battlegroup Points Used: 31) - Archangel - PC: 35
Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion - PC: 0 The Forsaken - PC: 0 Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion - PC: 0 The Forsaken - PC: 4 Spell Martyr - PC: 1
Strider Blightblades - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 Strider Scouts - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Strider Scout Officer & Musician - Officer & Musician: 4 Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8
THEME: Ravens of War ---
GENERATED : 08/26/2019 09:12:09 BUILD ID : 2089.19-07-18
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Aug 7, 2019 20:05:27 GMT
Can they beat The Child?
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Aug 1, 2019 14:08:42 GMT
Yup, and will probably directly compete with PP's warcaster game next year. Let the DOOM begin Will it? I don't think there's a lot of crossover between comics super heroes and sci-fi war. I've never once seen a Heroclix player have any interest in other wargames, or vice versa.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Jul 30, 2019 16:48:41 GMT
I'm surprised this is even hitting our collective radar. Pretty much all the Legion lessers are traps. Blight Wasps are right in line. The only time I ever thought they had a purpose was when they could receive unit buffs, like Fury. Now their purpose is to warm my shelves, just like all my other lessers.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Jul 26, 2019 13:23:14 GMT
Today is the day, boys. Today is the day everything changes to whole new world...
Which we can then complain about but not actually play. PROGRESS!
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Jul 24, 2019 13:59:48 GMT
I actually really like the Mark Target theme benefit because it makes Striders and Banshees capable of reliably using their ranged attacks without special caster support. RAT 8 Strider Rangers actually do what they are supposed to, and RAT 7 Banshees can actually get work done too. Combine that with Hellmouths to contest while enabling landsharks to do the heavy lifting. Meanwhile Blightblades and Grotesques jam. It actually seems like a fully functional theme now!
Oracles with Incubi and Corrosion will have specific questions to ask enemy 1-wound infantry spam, and with Puppet Master and Ice Cages not caring about friendly faction, they work well with z Minions. But it's pretty much awful as a beast theme, but I don't think it's really intended to be.
CotD... I'm not sure what this theme is really supposed to do. Nyss infantry is ok but not amazing, unyielding on Nephilim is cute but most Nephilim aren't very good... So to me the defining factor is this theme is access to Nyss infantry... So I guess if Archers and Swordsmen and *snicker* Legionnaires are really your thing, this is theme for you.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Jul 22, 2019 12:57:29 GMT
This is what I was worried about. Without a change to Hellmouths, or a change to make the themes that have access to them any worse or more limited, there will be little reason to play any of the other themes. Primal Terrors has it all so... Hooray...
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Jul 22, 2019 12:45:52 GMT
From what I've seen, Rasheth lists are based on the idea that you force them to come to you with ranged attacks and spell slinging from a far. Then when they get to you, pop feat and make it work for you twice. You usually end up giving the opponent a control point lead as a result. Lists always have 2 Siege Turtles, good Eyeless Sight source, and a means of channeling spells. Lately I've been seeing Supreme Guardian mixed in to bring back the dudes you kill when channeling. I'm aware that most Rasheth lists have 2-4 huge bases, but I'm not looking for that level of competitiveness right now. I don't have any huge bases to proxy either, and I'm not hugely into BEs anyway. Do you think it's better to go first or second with this kind of list? I feel like you need to deliver an insane alpha either way if you want to stand a chance on scenario, and you need -something- to contest flags/zones, otherwise you lose by top of 3. You will need to advance up the table quickly, and apply pressure with your ranged elements fast. Usually going first is correct. If I had to make a Rasheth list without huge bases... War Room Army Skorne - Rasheth Done Wrong Theme: Winds of Death 3 / 1 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army <! OVER THEME FREE CARD LIMIT !> Dominar Rasheth - WB: +28 - Aptimus Marketh - PC: 0 - Cyclops Shaman - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Titan Gladiator - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15) - Titan Cannoneer - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5) - Titan Cannoneer - PC: 16 - Titan Cannoneer - PC: 16 Venator Dakar - PC: 0 Extoller Soulward - PC: 0 Venator Slingers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8 Venator Reivers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Venator Reiver Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4 Paingiver Beast Handlers - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5 THEME: Winds of Death --- GENERATED : 07/22/2019 08:39:20 BUILD ID : 2088.19-07-02 I imagine the new requisition stuff will change this. Actually looking at it more, I'd probably squeeze an Agonizer in there somewhere, probably by lowering the Venator Reivers or something. Basically, I think you need beefy ranged elements from the cannoneers to maximize the feat and force the enemy into your ideal situation. Without using any huge bases, you need the Gladiator and the Shaman to get them into position so you don't lose on scenario. You need Slingers to channel through on early turns, as well as to drop your own Breath of Corruption on so you can make your own cloud wall of death to protect your guys.
|
|