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Post by michael on Jul 27, 2020 14:02:48 GMT
yeah... I have a dilemma now, should I put them into the list or maybe Mechaniks + Hermit... also 8 points. Widowmakers. You want Widowmakers. Seriously. They're one of the best ways of triggering Road to War in Jaws of the Wolf. They are expensive at 8 points, yes, but they do real work, especially if you can keep them alive for several turns.
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Karchev
Jul 27, 2020 17:34:43 GMT
via mobile
Post by steeltitan on Jul 27, 2020 17:34:43 GMT
Agreed. That and i wouldnt want to run Hermit in Jaws. You're likely to cause more harm than good with the -2 ARM and Jaws typically hits hard enough (+feat).
I think Mechanics are nice to have but i typically dont reserve points for them, i.e. first thing to go if i need points.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 27, 2020 18:08:01 GMT
I think Mechanics are nice to have but i typically dont reserve points for them, i.e. first thing to go if i need points. Even in a Karchev list?
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Karchev
Jul 27, 2020 23:08:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by Havock on Jul 27, 2020 23:08:10 GMT
If you are taking Hermit with Karchev it's probably more about Mad Visions; Karchev is already annoying to kill.
The ARM debuff is something you should only do when it just makes it clear(er) that you can remove all threats. It's still risky though.
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Post by vasquez21 on Jul 28, 2020 11:55:32 GMT
Hello guys! So I have played Karchev 3rd time with slight changes. Here is my list: conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1m7a7q7qkWkTkToRe3kRkRlOkV86chKhador [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf [Karchev 1] Karchev the Terrible [+30] - Devastator [14] - Devastator [14] - Juggernaut [13] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] Hermit of Henge Hold [5] Kovnik Andrei Malakov [0(4)] - Berserker [8] - Berserker [8] Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [0(4)] - Beast 09 [18] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Kayazy Eliminators [0(5)] Game So the game was again vs Legion and new Bethayne 2. My opponent was playing a lot of beasts with heavy armor (some using animus), and Archangel hitting hard. Also there was annoying archer unit which got upkeep giving -2 ARM... so my Jacks weren't so tough anymore. Game was simple... I started and have run all my Jacks forward, and then Legion also move heavily forward with Archangel taking over half life from Beast 09, and archers focusing and killing one of Berserkers. It was also his feat turn (he can pick 8 models which can use transfer without spending fury). Lucky for me he didn't back his Archangel enough. I need some kills but the other berserker was able to kill one solo, which allows me to move one of the Jack who then kills two others solos and then I was able to reach Archangel with 3 my jacks (Beast 09), Marauder, Devastator... The question was is he have enough buffor to sustain all the damage. But in the end it was not enough and Gargantuan was killed. The only problem was that I had Karchev in the middle of the board without any focus. Lucky for me he had just Bethany 2 and one small beast (Raek) in range of charge, also I was behind Fog so his archers couldn't connect on me. In the end his first charge hit was canceled by Hermit, and others were just not enough. He wasn't even able to took half life on Karchev, and concede.
List
Devastators - as always are performing well and I don't think I will ever drop even one. Jugg - he's fine. But I am also not see a problem with echanging it with Marauder if I need points. Marauder - yeah, that's probably our go to Jack right now. Malakov + 2x Berserkers - So the idea was... that I can keep Sorscha close also to both Berserkers and with Bounding Charge and Redline I can threat with them on 12". The thing is when I upkeep on of them and then want to cast another Redline I don't have enough points to assign to them. So I have to say it wasn't good investment in the end, if they would be at least mat 7 so you didn't have to pick low def targets it could help.
Sorscha 0 + Beast 09 - Not much conclusion here. I have used him vs Collosal so his Murderous or Thresher didn't changed much. Shield Guard, also wasn't especially usefull that game. But I already learn it's nice to have. Hermit - Mostly for negating first charge attack, I was not able to use his arm debuff, probably drop from the list. Kayazy - This time I was trying to stay back with them, and in the end they didn't do much.
Mechaniks - Yeah. They helped with repairing Beast 09, and I think I need that unit in list to help sometimes, and because I dropped another unit of Kayazy it's also my second unit if needed.
Conclusion... I think that for some time I am done with this list, but my next would be something like this:
conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1m7a7q7qkWkWkTkTnjlOkV8y868eKhador [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf [Karchev 1] Karchev the Terrible [+30] - Devastator [14] - Devastator [14] - Juggernaut [13] - Juggernaut [13] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] - Greylord Adjunct [0(4)] Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [0(4)] - Beast 09 [18] Yuri the Axe [0(5)] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Widowmaker Scouts [8]
I think that Malakov didn't perform as good as I wish so I dropped him, and I am getting another Jugger + Widowmakers + Adjunct.
Another Jack in Battlegroup means I will again have some problems with Focus allocation but Adjunct should save me 1 point, and if needed could give Eyeless Sight to someone. Also because of Widowmakers in the mix, I think I need to change Kayazy for Yuri (need some solos).
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Karchev
Jul 28, 2020 16:46:13 GMT
via mobile
Post by michael on Jul 28, 2020 16:46:13 GMT
Turn a Devastator into a Destroyer. Another Road to War trigger and some ranged threat.
You should try Malakov with a Grolar. Expensive, but ludicrously good.
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Karchev
Jul 28, 2020 19:13:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by Havock on Jul 28, 2020 19:13:42 GMT
I have tinkered with Karchev and Big B/Destroyers and it's pretty alright, Gunboat Redux. RTW fixes the RAT issue a little, felt it had more options than "shove brick forward, don't die to faster threats."
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Post by michael on Jul 28, 2020 19:20:44 GMT
Oh, also: don't use Berserkers. They're trash. Malakov has one of the very best single-target warjack buffs in the game, and that barely brings the Berserker up to the default level of some of our other jacks. Long story short: I don't think it was Malakov's fault.
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Karchev
Jul 28, 2020 19:47:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by Havock on Jul 28, 2020 19:47:48 GMT
It's one of those cases where you gotta ask "is it worth paying the extra points for a marauder?"
And the answer is "yes, yes it Firetrucking is."
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Post by vasquez21 on Jul 28, 2020 20:38:12 GMT
Turn a Devastator into a Destroyer. Another Road to War trigger and some ranged threat.
Well for all games, I already played I think that Devastators performed very well... and having one on each side is great.
I just looked at Grolar, but tbh I am not sure why he is so great. But maybe I am missing something? He has 10" threat (+2 with boundles), so nothing impressive. Of course the fact that he can KO guys is cool, but it would be great if his gun was doing more Damage. With POW 12 it's a little waste to shoot at heavy ARM targets, and with Rat 4 he will most of the time miss infantry with ~13def, and you will not boost that, because it would be better to hit and KO other targets around you. Unless you are saying that his Piston Hammer is enough and Ranges are just nice addition? I think that's ok, but when I think how he could work in Sorcha 1/Vlad1 list, it's a little sad
That's interesting idea indeed, but I again doubt if this is really caster for it? Even with rat 6, and dmg 14 it looks at best medicore... and cost (losing melee atack) is high I think too.
Yeah. I wanted to test Berserkers for the first time, and it wasn't good performance I also think Malakov is great I just can't find good usage for him here. Initial idea was that it will open me more options for triggering RTW, but now when I added Widowmakers I think it's not so needed.
Yeah... 3 point difference between them is funny.
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Post by michael on Jul 28, 2020 21:41:07 GMT
So, the Grolar, in no particular order:
- Pathfinder
- Auto-knockdown is a MASSIVE boost to damage output, as long as your target can be knocked down. It removes the miss chance for attacks, which can lead to something like a ~30% increase in damage output.
- The gun is a bonus. The gun is there for you to do fun things like charge an opposing heavy, knock it down, Ram it, advance, punch the heavy, and then hose down 3-5 random guys (like Choir members, or Beast Handlers, or other important support bits and pieces), and then beat the ever-living crap out of whatever is in range.
With Malakov's Redline, you get a free P+S 20 + 3d6 charge attack, a P+S 17 follow-up, some bonus gunshots, and more P+S 20 knockdown, Ram hits.
Couple it with Vlad1's Signs & Portents for just truly bonkers output. I've had a Grolar charge, scrap one heavy, hose down some important support pieces, and wipe out half of another heavy after all the bought attacks were said and done. It's... it just performs better on the table than its stat line would indicate.
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 28, 2020 23:00:10 GMT
So, the Grolar, in no particular order: - Pathfinder - Auto-knockdown is a MASSIVE boost to damage output, as long as your target can be knocked down. It removes the miss chance for attacks, which can lead to something like a ~30% increase in damage output. - The gun is a bonus. The gun is there for you to do fun things like charge an opposing heavy, knock it down, Ram it, advance, punch the heavy, and then hose down 3-5 random guys (like Choir members, or Beast Handlers, or other important support bits and pieces), and then beat the ever-living crap out of whatever is in range. With Malakov's Redline, you get a free P+S 20 + 3d6 charge attack, a P+S 17 follow-up, some bonus gunshots, and more P+S 20 knockdown, Ram hits. Couple it with Vlad1's Signs & Portents for just truly bonkers output. I've had a Grolar charge, scrap one heavy, hose down some important support pieces, and wipe out half of another heavy after all the bought attacks were said and done. It's... it just performs better on the table than its stat line would indicate. The gun can be a way to squeeze out that last 1-3 damage on a lower armor heavy when you have a bad dice turn on the hammer as well. I wouldn't lean on it as a strategy but its happened often enough that it should probably get an acknowledgement.
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Post by michael on Jul 28, 2020 23:25:59 GMT
That too. Although my favorite use is the simple "spray and pray" against support models, solos, or whatever. Three guaranteed shots gives pretty good odds to hit something.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 29, 2020 8:43:18 GMT
Turn a Devastator into a Destroyer. Another Road to War trigger and some ranged threat.
Well for all games, I already played I think that Devastators performed very well... and having one on each side is great.
Put a destroyer on kratikoff. That way she can hang back and buff while the destroyer holds a zone and bombards away. Which is better than instead having her follow around a melee jack and getting herself killed. You are also right in your observation that Devys are awesome with Karchev, because he fixes their damage issues and they can bulldoze targets closer to the rest of his jacks. As for Andy, i'd give him a marauder, if I were to run him at all with Karchev. It's the cheapest option if you want to take him and you need those points for Karchevs battlegroup.
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Post by vasquez21 on Jul 29, 2020 8:58:07 GMT
I will try Grolar + Malakov for sure then, but I just think not with Karchev.
I loved the idea with Destroyer on Kratikoff. I think I will try this one.
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