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Post by Dirhavel on Dec 20, 2019 13:25:52 GMT
So I got my dhunian archons last week and I wanted to try them out in TFA to see if/how they would improve the theme.
Two games in (both with Midas), I'm already considering going back to WWFF... I still want to try TFA with Helga and Carver at least, but so far it's been fairly lackluster and not fun to play at all. Here are my findings : - Farrow are still very slow as a whole, so scenario presence is a big issue. Lack of pathfinder options doesn't help in rough terrain heavy tables. - Farrow casters have great spell lists, but lack the fury support to use it even close to efficiently. With Midas for exemple if you want to upkeep Death March you usually can only cast one instance of Battle Lust/Calamity/Hex Blast and that's your whole turn... - The trenches, Rise and Dhunians help deliver the army, but so far that hasn't been enough to make TFA work for me.
So that's about it. So far I feel like Dhunians help with one of the fundamental problems of TFA (delivery), but not with the other two big ones (scenario and lack of caster-infantry synergy). I'm thinking TFA will continue to be mostly just a fun theme, while for competitive play WWFF is still 100x better.
Has anyone had different experiences? I'd love to hear of lists that have been working for you guys.
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Post by custardboy on Dec 25, 2019 0:28:27 GMT
Thornfall is a fundamentally bad theme. I don't see that ever changing. Hopefully some stuff will make it fun at least.
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Post by Azahul on Dec 25, 2019 1:59:45 GMT
I don't think I ever really had a problem with Midas's Fury in Thornfall. Farrow infantry is accurate enough that you don't always need Death March for the +2 Mat, and you've already gained the Vengeance benefit by the time you've got to decide whether or not to upkeep. Plus the list is so slow that by the time you need to decide whether you should be casting Battle Lust, you've surely already lost a Warbeast or three. I don't think Midas in Thornfall is a bad list, frankly, I just don't enjoy the way it plays. Too slow and reactive and without any cute tricks. I'm considering toying around with some Meat Thresher builds in the near future, but I don't expect them to become part of a tournament pair anytime soon. The Dhunian Archons help, though it's hard getting them and the Razorback Crew for some board presence and the critical mass of infantry and the Meat Thresher all in the one list.
Other than that, I think you've nailed the problem with Thornfall in the lack of Warlock-infantry synergy. Poor scenario presence doesn't super help, though there are comparable themes like Exemplar Interdiction that are mostly limited to Speed 5 infantry. EI has Desperate Pace and AD Errants and Warcasters who actually speed up their infantry and access to resilient multi wound infantry though, not to mention a gun platform in the Judicator. Thornfall would need a fair few new releases to compete on the same field.
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Post by custardboy on Dec 25, 2019 3:10:40 GMT
I've certainly had issues with his fury. I found I needed battle lust everywhere at once, brigands needed calamity out to do anything, and his stat line without nodes means he has to camp. I think all the casters except Arkadius need a rework though.
Thornfall is certainly very reactive. You walk forward trying to make tough rolls, then charge or shoot whatever is in range. Attempt to close out the game before you run out of bodies.
There are plenty of issues with Thornfall, I don't think we can really boil it down to one thing.
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Post by charlzheimer on Dec 28, 2019 12:27:21 GMT
I've certainly had issues with his fury. I found I needed battle lust everywhere at once, brigands needed calamity out to do anything, and his stat line without nodes means he has to camp. I think all the casters except Arkadius need a rework though. Thornfall is certainly very reactive. You walk forward trying to make tough rolls, then charge or shoot whatever is in range. Attempt to close out the game before you run out of bodies. There are plenty of issues with Thornfall, I don't think we can really boil it down to one thing. when your only tactic is "run forward and hit things really hard" you tend to walk into a series of problems.
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Post by Dirhavel on Dec 31, 2019 12:22:33 GMT
I played TFA with Carver a couple times since that first post and I enjoyed it quite a bit more than Midas.
Carver could already play a bricky list before, and adding dhunians and Valkyries in there makes it into a fairly annoying list to play against.
That said, I still think that list would be straight up better in WWFF. You lose the slaughterhousers and razorback, but gain overtake every turn and the much needed fury support.
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