Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182 
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Post by Kavrae on Apr 24, 2017 20:23:01 GMT
nightmareempire.wordpress.com/category/battle-reports/A collection of my Cryx vs Cygnar games via vassal. Up to 14 so far and currently writing #15. Warning - they're not pretty... very few wins. I seem to do better at painting the models than actually winning battles with them.
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Post by mekame on Apr 24, 2017 20:45:02 GMT
-Whistles innocently re. the win rate-
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Post by Cookielol on Apr 25, 2017 1:59:48 GMT
These are awesome. Thank you so much!
Id love to see maybe your take on Gaspy3/Denny1/Aggie1 in regards to a analysis about them! (As a starting Cryx player I only own them, and want to try and make them successful before going to other options like Skarre/Coven.)
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Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182
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Post by Kavrae on Apr 25, 2017 18:28:39 GMT
Well, I'm still a relatively new player and not a particularly good one. I'm far better at painting and theorycrafting, but I'll see what I can do.
Bane Witch Agathia
She's our battlebox caster for a reason. She does a little of everything we like while being one of our easiest casters to play. However, she doesn't have a particularly necessary niche (Witch Coven) or powerful offensive feat (Skarre), which turns a lot of people away from her.
The first place to start is her Feat. It does three different things, and the trick is to pick one or two of those abilities to abuse each game. Trying to get optimal use out of all three at once is like waiting for three cats to line up; it's not going to happen. Mass ghostly lets you run a horde of infantry or warjacks that just outright ignore terrain, which is becoming more important every time they update Steamroller to make terrain more prevalent. It can also be used to run through gaps in your opponent's army to assassinate the important backline pieces (think 6pts of Carrion Thralls killing a Journeyman Warcaster). AOE stealth is best used on the approach against gunlines. Sure, a lot of things can see through stealth now, but rarely enough to attack your entire army. This is what lets her survive until the battle lines collide. Finally, giving a small teleport to your Warjacks at the end of their activation... This has two uses. The simplest is that you get that small bit of distance to engage large guns faster after running. The second is that you can hit your opponents with guns, harpoons, or a simple charge, then jump back to safety or out of engagement. Overall, her feat is amazingly versatile and gives you a lot of options to work with if you keep your eyes open for them. Don't be afraid to pop it at the bottom of turn 1 or save it for that turn 4 assassination.
For spells, Agathia is... generic. This is both good and bad. On the good side, she can handle almost any situation decently well. On the bad side... there's nothing for you to focus on as a winning strategy. Ghost Walk is a standard Cryx spell that allows us to take non-ghostly infantry and warjacks safely, extending our threat through terrain. Hellfire is another standard Cryx spell that's great at nuking solos or finishing up assassination runs against Tough Warlocks. Parasite is, yet again, another standard Cryx spell that lets everything we have hit like runaway trucks. Then we get to her "unique" spell, Hellwrought. This defensive/counterpunch upkeep allows her to justify taking one heavy warjack. I prefer Deathjack or Malice here, as Hellwrought + Feat helps them survive until they can wreck things. Finally we get to Vanish. A dirt cheap spell that enables her amazing back-strike assassination charge, jump out of melee, or just cast cast a few spells then get back behind terrain. Again, highly versatile.
For her personal abilities, Agathia has Dark Shroud and Cull Soul. Nothing unusual or new here. But combine these with a RNG2 POW 12 magical weapon and she has a respectable melee game. It's not unheard of to have her charge a heavy warjack just to apply Dark Shroud for her warjacks to finish off. She can also charge a model, then Vanish behind them to get those sweet back strikes (now effective MAT 9, POW 14) with 6 focus to swing away with.
In terms on army composition, I like to take a mixed approach. One heavy warjack (Deathjack, Malice, or Inflictor) and a couple of arc nodes for her Battlegroup. Desecrator is also a good option if your local meta runs infantry, since she counts as a Bane model. Really though, you can run a LOT of different things with her battlegroup. Double harpoons was one of my favorites. Skarlock won't do much for you as he would only be casting Hellfire or Ghost Walk, but the Withershadow Combine are always welcome to help land Parasite. For units, while it is counter-intuitive I would avoid anything with Bane in its name, since Ghostly and Dark Shroud are wasted on them. Stealth is nice for one turn, but that's it. Instead, Satyxis Raiders are horribly obnoxious when they get both Ghostly and Whipping Winds, Bloodgorgers can be BRUTAL with her ability to get them up the board, and Carrion Thralls can become a reliable solo removal squad.
Now in terms of Theme Lists.... Ghost Fleet doesn't seem that great for her. Her heavy warjack options suddenly become very limited and she just doesn't do enough for the Revenants to justify taking her over Deneghra1 or Goreshade3. Maybe if the goal is to Ghost Walk three units and run them into the zones as quickly as possible? Infernal Machine, however, she LOVES. Hellwrought + Hyper Aggressive means that if they don't kill your warjack, it's going to walk SPD+3 inches and then smack them in the face. You can then justify taking multiple heavy jacks, so long as you bring enough Warwitches to fuel them. She may not run the theme as well as Asphyxious3, but it's still solid.
In the end, her army comes down to "build what you want, and she'll improve it in small ways while ignoring terrain penalties".
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Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182
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Post by Kavrae on Apr 25, 2017 18:55:12 GMT
Warwitch Deneghra
I'm going to take this time to coin the phrase "Why not Denny1?" Because that's been the question ever since I started playing (granted, only since the last months of MK2). Any time you build an army you have to ask yourself "Will Deneghra1 do it better?" And often times, the answer is yes.
Deneghra1 is our iconic backline debuff caster. As with Agathia, I'll start with her feat. The Withering is... oppressive. -2 to everything is a severe blow to most armies without a MAT/RAT fixer or a damage buff, while the DEF and ARM debuff allows her to run almost any unit or solo effectively. The lack of running, charging, or special attacks then keeps her safe from retaliation, as you'll likely walk farther forward than you're comfortable with to catch their entire army in your control area.
As a spellcaster, Deneghra has an amazing spell lineup for almost any situation. Starting off strong is Crippling Grasp. Pick one model. Kill that model. You should have this one something every turn if possible. Doing a suicide run with a Deathripper to apply this to an expensive model on the bottom of turn 1 is completely viable. Dark Seduction doesn't get used very often, but is available if your opponent has a squishy and important solo/warcaster in range of a weapon master or other powerful solo. Ex: a hitting a Journeyman Warcaster with a Stormblade Captain. Ghost walk is a standard Cryxian spell that lets you ignore terrain when needed. Parasite is a familiar spell. Pick a low DEF target. Kill said target. While you can't stack it with Crippling Grasp, it does allow you to break two targets per turn reliably. I suggest using it with Puppet Master while possible for that amazing reroll. Scourge is a terrifying spell that Deneghra somehow got access to. Run an arc node just outside of melee range of something important, Scourge it (hits even on max deviation now), and suddenly you can land anything you want easily. Perfect for setting up assassinations, though it often means she'll be sitting at 0 focus camped after Parasite. Finally we have Venom, which is a great infantry removal tool. It can also be spammed 4 times (once from Withershadow) on assassination attempts against low ARM Warcasters.
Her battlegroup is pretty standard at this point. Inflictor (defensive) or Nightmare (offensive) and a swarm of 2-4 arc nodes. After my latest failed battle against Siege, my preference is Inflictor, Nightwretch, and Defiler. While she can reasonably run just about any battlegroup effectively, there are two rules I would follow: 1) You don't have any focus to give to jacks. 2) She LOVES arc nodes. If possible, run the Withershadow Combine. She makes excellent use of every one of their abilities, with the added bonus of your entire backline being Stealthed.
For the rest of her army... Deneghra can run basically whatever you want. She can make Revenants hit respectably hard (RNG 14 POW 13 CRA ghost shot against -5 ARM is a threat against most casters and support models). She can provide knockdowns for high power but low MAT warjacks and infantry (Bane Warriors). She's also known for running a terrifying Mercenary gunline at times. Just find what you like the most and go for it.
For theme lists, Deneghra is the opposite of Agathia. She can take the Ghost Fleet and ramp it up to something scary. As already mentioned, she does great things with the Revenant Riflemen. She also makes it fairly difficult to kill the Wraith Engine on feat turn, helping it get into position. Finally, Scourge + Parasite + Ghost Raiders can reliably end many matches. Infernal Machines, however, doesn't work so well for her. Deneghra just doesn't have enough focus to give out to a horde of Warjacks while also spamming her powerful spells. One option might be to run a horde of Seethers and go for a focus efficient counterpunch army, but I'm not sure how well this would work out.
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Post by Cookielol on Apr 25, 2017 20:57:52 GMT
Warwitch Deneghra I'm going to take this time to coin the phrase "Why not Denny1?" Because that's been the question ever since I started playing (granted, only since the last months of MK2). Any time you build an army you have to ask yourself "Will Deneghra1 do it better?" And often times, the answer is yes. Deneghra1 is our iconic backline debuff caster. As with Agathia, I'll start with her feat. The Withering is... oppressive. -2 to everything is a severe blow to most armies without a MAT/RAT fixer or a damage buff, while the DEF and ARM debuff allows her to run almost any unit or solo effectively. The lack of running, charging, or special attacks then keeps her safe from retaliation, as you'll likely walk farther forward than you're comfortable with to catch their entire army in your control area. As a spellcaster, Deneghra has an amazing spell lineup for almost any situation. Starting off strong is Crippling Grasp. Pick one model. Kill that model. You should have this one something every turn if possible. Doing a suicide run with a Deathripper to apply this to an expensive model on the bottom of turn 1 is completely viable. Dark Seduction doesn't get used very often, but is available if your opponent has a squishy and important solo/warcaster in range of a weapon master or other powerful solo. Ex: a hitting a Journeyman Warcaster with a Stormblade Captain. Ghost walk is a standard Cryxian spell that lets you ignore terrain when needed. Parasite is a familiar spell. Pick a low DEF target. Kill said target. While you can't stack it with Crippling Grasp, it does allow you to break two targets per turn reliably. I suggest using it with Puppet Master while possible for that amazing reroll. Scourge is a terrifying spell that Deneghra somehow got access to. Run an arc node just outside of melee range of something important, Scourge it (hits even on max deviation now), and suddenly you can land anything you want easily. Perfect for setting up assassinations, though it often means she'll be sitting at 0 focus camped after Parasite. Finally we have Venom, which is a great infantry removal tool. It can also be spammed 4 times (once from Withershadow) on assassination attempts against low ARM Warcasters. Her battlegroup is pretty standard at this point. Inflictor (defensive) or Nightmare (offensive) and a swarm of 2-4 arc nodes. After my latest failed battle against Siege, my preference is Inflictor, Nightwretch, and Defiler. While she can reasonably run just about any battlegroup effectively, there are two rules I would follow: 1) You don't have any focus to give to jacks. 2) She LOVES arc nodes. If possible, run the Withershadow Combine. She makes excellent use of every one of their abilities, with the added bonus of your entire backline being Stealthed. For the rest of her army... Deneghra can run basically whatever you want. She can make Revenants hit respectably hard (RNG 14 POW 13 CRA ghost shot against -5 ARM is a threat against most casters and support models). She can provide knockdowns for high power but low MAT warjacks and infantry (Bane Warriors). She's also known for running a terrifying Mercenary gunline at times. Just find what you like the most and go for it. For theme lists, Deneghra is the opposite of Agathia. She can take the Ghost Fleet and ramp it up to something scary. As already mentioned, she does great things with the Revenant Riflemen. She also makes it fairly difficult to kill the Wraith Engine on feat turn, helping it get into position. Finally, Scourge + Parasite + Ghost Raiders can reliably end many matches. Infernal Machines, however, doesn't work so well for her. Deneghra just doesn't have enough focus to give out to a horde of Warjacks while also spamming her powerful spells. One option might be to run a horde of Seethers and go for a focus efficient counterpunch army, but I'm not sure how well this would work out. This is pure & sheer genius! I love this! Thank you sooo much for the help! Cant wait for G3! |
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Apr 26, 2017 3:50:17 GMT
Well, I'm still a relatively new player and not a particularly good one. I'm far better at painting and theorycrafting, but I'll see what I can do. Bane Witch Agathia She's our battlebox caster for a reason. She does a little of everything we like while being one of our easiest casters to play. However, she doesn't have a particularly necessary niche (Witch Coven) or powerful offensive feat (Skarre), which turns a lot of people away from her. The first place to start is her Feat. It does three different things, and the trick is to pick one or two of those abilities to abuse each game. Trying to get optimal use out of all three at once is like waiting for three cats to line up; it's not going to happen. Mass ghostly lets you run a horde of infantry or warjacks that just outright ignore terrain, which is becoming more important every time they update Steamroller to make terrain more prevalent. It can also be used to run through gaps in your opponent's army to assassinate the important backline pieces (think 6pts of Carrion Thralls killing a Journeyman Warcaster). AOE stealth is best used on the approach against gunlines. Sure, a lot of things can see through stealth now, but rarely enough to attack your entire army. This is what lets her survive until the battle lines collide. Finally, giving a small teleport to your Warjacks at the end of their activation... This has two uses. The simplest is that you get that small bit of distance to engage large guns faster after running. The second is that you can hit your opponents with guns, harpoons, or a simple charge, then jump back to safety or out of engagement. Overall, her feat is amazingly versatile and gives you a lot of options to work with if you keep your eyes open for them. Don't be afraid to pop it at the bottom of turn 1 or save it for that turn 4 assassination. For spells, Agathia is... generic. This is both good and bad. On the good side, she can handle almost any situation decently well. On the bad side... there's nothing for you to focus on as a winning strategy. Ghost Walk is a standard Cryx spell that allows us to take non-ghostly infantry and warjacks safely, extending our threat through terrain. Hellfire is another standard Cryx spell that's great at nuking solos or finishing up assassination runs against Tough Warlocks. Parasite is, yet again, another standard Cryx spell that lets everything we have hit like runaway trucks. Then we get to her "unique" spell, Hellwrought. This defensive/counterpunch upkeep allows her to justify taking one heavy warjack. I prefer Deathjack or Malice here, as Hellwrought + Feat helps them survive until they can wreck things. Finally we get to Vanish. A dirt cheap spell that enables her amazing back-strike assassination charge, jump out of melee, or just cast cast a few spells then get back behind terrain. Again, highly versatile. For her personal abilities, Agathia has Dark Shroud and Cull Soul. Nothing unusual or new here. But combine these with a RNG2 POW 12 magical weapon and she has a respectable melee game. It's not unheard of to have her charge a heavy warjack just to apply Dark Shroud for her warjacks to finish off. She can also charge a model, then Vanish behind them to get those sweet back strikes (now effective MAT 9, POW 14) with 6 focus to swing away with. In terms on army composition, I like to take a mixed approach. One heavy warjack (Deathjack, Malice, or Inflictor) and a couple of arc nodes for her Battlegroup. Desecrator is also a good option if your local meta runs infantry, since she counts as a Bane model. Really though, you can run a LOT of different things with her battlegroup. Double harpoons was one of my favorites. Skarlock won't do much for you as he would only be casting Hellfire or Ghost Walk, but the Withershadow Combine are always welcome to help land Parasite. For units, while it is counter-intuitive I would avoid anything with Bane in its name, since Ghostly and Dark Shroud are wasted on them. Stealth is nice for one turn, but that's it. Instead, Satyxis Raiders are horribly obnoxious when they get both Ghostly and Whipping Winds, Bloodgorgers can be BRUTAL with her ability to get them up the board, and Carrion Thralls can become a reliable solo removal squad. Now in terms of Theme Lists.... Ghost Fleet doesn't seem that great for her. Her heavy warjack options suddenly become very limited and she just doesn't do enough for the Revenants to justify taking her over Deneghra1 or Goreshade3. Maybe if the goal is to Ghost Walk three units and run them into the zones as quickly as possible? Infernal Machine, however, she LOVES. Hellwrought + Hyper Aggressive means that if they don't kill your warjack, it's going to walk SPD+3 inches and then smack them in the face. You can then justify taking multiple heavy jacks, so long as you bring enough Warwitches to fuel them. She may not run the theme as well as Asphyxious3, but it's still solid. In the end, her army comes down to "build what you want, and she'll improve it in small ways while ignoring terrain penalties". Great Agathia analysis. Have you played her Inf machine list yet? |
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Apr 26, 2017 3:50:46 GMT
Kavrae, now you have to jump on the Sturgis train.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 26, 2017 6:49:57 GMT
Great write-ups, I would like to add that Stalkers are also nice for a Denny 1 battle group, she makes them hit at dice damage against an Arcane Shielded Stormwall (feat + Parasite + Dark Shroud/Rust) They're cheap, so you can take a few more jacks for scenario presence in 2017 instead of a single heavy. Also, Bane Lord Tartarus is something to consider with Agathia. It's an additional source of Dark Shroud and Curse actually works for Agathia, so you can sling spells or hit things at effective 9 before back strikes. If only he were 6 points instead of 8. npe: Agathia doesn't really help in the to-hit department, so do you think she is the right caster for a bunch of MAT 5 models? |
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Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182
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Post by Kavrae on Apr 26, 2017 12:43:20 GMT
Cookielol Thanks. I'll see what I can do with Gaspy3. I only have about 3 games in with him, but my list is pretty standard (before theme). I'll work on this later today or tomorrow. npe I haven't run her under infernal machine yet. Mostly because I don't have access to any Thralls right now and haven't tried in on Vassal yet. As for Sturgis - I do have him. He just hasn't been much of a priority for me. Gamingdevil Thanks, I forgot about those additions. Stalkers should work amazingly with Deneghra. Tartarus is also one I had completely forgotten about, since I can so rarely justify his point cost. But he does help a lot in landing those all-important Parasite and Hellfire rolls without boosting (saving focus for boosting damage on the Hellfire) We'll see what happens with the Bane Theme. Maybe he'll be more worth it then? As an additional note, I played a game last night as Agathia vs Irusk2. I ran Deathjack, two arc nodes, Satyxis Raiders, Bane Warriors (only other unit I had on me), and a Wraith Engine with her. While I did lose (forgot about Energizer), it was a good match. I had him completely strangled on scenario until the assassination hit me. We came to the conclusion that a lot of people are going to have trouble dealing with incorporeal models under stealth, as not many things outside of Legion have answers to both at the same time. Sure, it's only for one turn, but that's really all you need.
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Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182
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Post by Kavrae on Apr 27, 2017 15:34:16 GMT
Next report is up. I'm not happy with it... but I've gotten a lot of post-game feedback and good ideas from it. This will form the basis of my Ghost Fleet army with Deneghra1 paired with Agathia, Skarre1, or Goreshade3 (haven't decided yet). There's also some potential for Terminus, depending on how the CID turns out. Though at that point, I think I need a bigger carrying case to handle 2 Wraith Engines and Terminus.... nightmareempire.wordpress.com/2017/04/27/warwitch-deneghra-vs-major-markus-siege-brisbane/ |
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Post by jest on May 1, 2017 16:49:04 GMT
Next report is up. I'm not happy with it... but I've gotten a lot of post-game feedback and good ideas from it. This will form the basis of my Ghost Fleet army with Deneghra1 paired with Agathia, Skarre1, or Goreshade3 (haven't decided yet). There's also some potential for Terminus, depending on how the CID turns out. Though at that point, I think I need a bigger carrying case to handle 2 Wraith Engines and Terminus.... nightmareempire.wordpress.com/2017/04/27/warwitch-deneghra-vs-major-markus-siege-brisbane/As a newer player playing Denny 1 I'm always finding new way to get her killed in seemly super-safe situations. DEF20 Stealth, opponent has no access to knockdown? She'll find a way to die. |
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Post by Cryptix on May 1, 2017 18:09:32 GMT
Next report is up. I'm not happy with it... but I've gotten a lot of post-game feedback and good ideas from it. This will form the basis of my Ghost Fleet army with Deneghra1 paired with Agathia, Skarre1, or Goreshade3 (haven't decided yet). There's also some potential for Terminus, depending on how the CID turns out. Though at that point, I think I need a bigger carrying case to handle 2 Wraith Engines and Terminus.... nightmareempire.wordpress.com/2017/04/27/warwitch-deneghra-vs-major-markus-siege-brisbane/As a newer player playing Denny 1 I'm always finding new way to get her killed in seemly super-safe situations. DEF20 Stealth, opponent has no access to knockdown? She'll find a way to die. Congratulations, you have described my Warmahordes experience from 2012 *cough* stupid OP slams *cough* |
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Post by jest on May 1, 2017 19:11:31 GMT
As a newer player playing Denny 1 I'm always finding new way to get her killed in seemly super-safe situations. DEF20 Stealth, opponent has no access to knockdown? She'll find a way to die. Congratulations, you have described my Warmahordes experience from 2012 *cough* stupid OP slams *cough* Haha seriously her card should read "IF YOU CAN TOUCH HER YOU CAN KILL HER" |
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Post by Gamingdevil on May 2, 2017 13:19:35 GMT
Congratulations, you have described my Warmahordes experience from 2012 *cough* stupid OP slams *cough* Haha seriously her card should read "IF YOU CAN TOUCH HER YOU CAN KILL HER" Well, her card already reads "if I can touch you, you die" so that seems fair. |
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