joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513 
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Post by joedj on Dec 13, 2019 17:15:01 GMT
Trollblood playbook (as far as I can tell from PP?!!) is supposed to be: Get hit first, survive, retaliate.So, I experimented with this: [Theme] Power of Dhunia [Madrak 3] Madrak, Great Chieftain [+29] - Mountain King [36] - Mountain King [36] - Mulg the Ancient [22] - Trollkin Runebearer [5] Dhunian Archon [0(6)] Dhunian Archon [0(6)] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4] Dhunian Knot [0(6)] Concept is to maximize recurring Damage Removal from Mountain Kings' free whelps, double dipping on the Archons' d3 damage removals. With many abilities/currently fielded models with PREVENTION of damage removal, MtKs seemed slightly better choices. MtKs not subject to GW. FREE whelps. MtKs must survive the initial onslaught. Lots of Fury removal via Archons/Knot-Serenity. Mulg was there to deny Mortality or non-healing spells directed at MtK (few-ish spells, but...If only Orin Midwinter worked with TBs. His denial ability is perfect for TB defense layering). Theory behind 1st attempt (Madrak3): Madrak3's aura frees up 6-9 points. Fortune = great on sprays/Killshot also Soothing Song helps with Fury control Problems: Madrak3 even with Fortune/S.Song and free 6-9 points (Protective Aura) sucks. His aura is too small, even with 2 Huge bases. His short ranged attack without Farstrike is abysmal, as enemies within range are also engaged. I probably should have and will try this instead: [Theme] Power of Dhunia [Doomshaper 3] Hoarluk Doomshaper, Dire Prophet [+26] <---Or maybe Ragnor + Lanyssa R. added - Mountain King [36] - Mountain King [36] - Troll Axer [10] Dhunian Archon [0(6)] Dhunian Archon [0(6)] Dhunian Knot [0(6)] Gatorman Bokor & Bog Trog Swamp Shamblers [10] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [9] Damage Removal Feat! Axer for greater MtK mobility. Shamblers for more bodies = damage removal/charge lane obstructions KSB replacement for Madrak3  We'll see how it goes! |
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Dec 13, 2019 17:17:20 GMT
BTW, no financial interest in Noble Knights Games, but their site shows all Archons sold out, EXCEPT Dhunian... Is it me, or does that suggest fewer TB/Minions players or that the Dhunian Archon is the runt of the litter?  |
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Post by mandra on Dec 13, 2019 17:38:17 GMT
Problems: Madrak3 even with Fortune/S.Song and free 6-9 points (Protective Aura) sucks. His aura is too small, even with 2 Huge bases. His short ranged attack without Farstrike is abysmal, as enemies within range are also engaged. One of our kin shaman dreamed about our fella Madrak3, we all hope in a great come back!  |
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Dec 13, 2019 17:53:03 GMT
BTW, no financial interest in Noble Knights Games, but their site shows all Archons sold out, EXCEPT Dhunian... Is it me, or does that suggest fewer TB/Minions players or that the Dhunian Archon is the runt of the litter? Honestly would have expected Primal to sell less, but at least he looks kind of cool. The Hordes side Archons are so niche' and limited it honestly doesn't surprise me though. |
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Dec 13, 2019 18:07:39 GMT
Primals and Rask (Boundless Charge and cycled Fury) makes for an interesting 1-2 KD beatback punch, followed by Countercharge threats (deterrent to charging Warbeasts/Warjacks w/o Steady).
Their auto area-KD on MELEE hit is worth noting relative to their point cost.
I'd buy Primals today if they were TB Partisan! And they should have been. /soapbox
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Dec 13, 2019 20:27:14 GMT
Primals and Rask (Boundless Charge and cycled Fury) makes for an interesting 1-2 KD beatback punch, followed by Countercharge threats (deterrent to charging Warbeasts/Warjacks w/o Steady). Their auto area-KD on MELEE hit is worth noting relative to their point cost. I'd buy Primals today if they were TB Partisan! And they should have been. /soapbox Primals being partisan would make absolutely no sense in the fluff. I'm also baffled that PP chose not to make the Dhunian a part of every TB theme. |
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Dec 15, 2019 15:12:22 GMT
From what I heard initially the Dh archon is kind of set as minion choice for Band of Heros and also for SotN. The abilities are just super good on the table.
Maybe people were not too excited about the model and the fact that it's not a shiny powerhouse of an archon.
For PoD 2 Archons are great in that Runeshapers list.
Other than that I think going with 2 colossals is the wrong choice. There is still a scenario to play. Take 1, buy welps and try to figure out what you are going to add for scenario.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Dec 15, 2019 15:20:35 GMT
I just wanted to see trolls get some more/better face smashing options. The Dhunian Archon, as good as it may be, is still just expensive support bloat. Trolls have enough support already. We need better things to give that support to.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Dec 15, 2019 15:53:57 GMT
From what I heard initially the Dh archon is kind of set as minion choice for Band of Heros and also for SotN. The abilities are just super good on the table. Maybe people were not too excited about the model and the fact that it's not a shiny powerhouse of an archon. For PoD 2 Archons are great in that Runeshapers list. Other than that I think going with 2 colossals is the wrong choice. There is still a scenario to play. Take 1, buy welps and try to figure out what you are going to add for scenario. In my first game, my two Gargs/MtKs + whelps/solos readily maintained scenario CP parity with the opponent. My opponent had better attrition forces however: Skorne 5 cheap heavies (3 Archidon, 2 Road Hogs) + Enrage and Wrastler's Rage = +5 damage and free charge for up to 3 highly mobile heavies! I think options such as THAT for TBs are what elricaltovilla may be alluding to... I suspect we will have to wait a bit longer (for memories to lapse) for any major survive-able, hard-hitting multi-wound TB troops. For some reason PP found/finds the combo of MMM (Miserable Meat Mountain) and TBs to be unpalatable. Even in this era. So far. |
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Post by anoddman on Dec 15, 2019 16:03:28 GMT
I just wanted to see trolls get some more/better face smashing options. The Dhunian Archon, as good as it may be, is still just expensive support bloat. Trolls have enough support already. We need better things to give that support to. You can still take them as a Requisition option, and there isn't a whole lot that's competing with that third Req slot (Runebearer gets 1, probably a Fell Caller/CA gets 2, Dhunian gets the third [unless in PoD, then they take two Req slots!]). Also, do not underestimate survivable, Pathfinder solos with 2" reach. The Dhunian Archon gets work done once the lines have clashed while still offering it's entire infantry support suite (Soothing Song is the only thing you lose). In SotN, she's easily a POW 16 on the charge which can get that extra damage in to take out a heavy. In Grissel1 Runes, she can swing up to POW 19 and put some serious damage on a heavy. One of the things that makes the Rune list work so well is that you have a very high number of quality attacks. When it comes time to killing heavies or super solos that have crashed into your lines, you'll be happy to have that Dhunian Archon charge in to put some meaty damage in on a target. |
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Post by elricaltovilla on Dec 15, 2019 23:01:41 GMT
From what I heard initially the Dh archon is kind of set as minion choice for Band of Heros and also for SotN. The abilities are just super good on the table. Maybe people were not too excited about the model and the fact that it's not a shiny powerhouse of an archon. For PoD 2 Archons are great in that Runeshapers list. Other than that I think going with 2 colossals is the wrong choice. There is still a scenario to play. Take 1, buy welps and try to figure out what you are going to add for scenario. In my first game, my two Gargs/MtKs + whelps/solos readily maintained scenario CP parity with the opponent. My opponent had better attrition forces however: Skorne 5 cheap heavies (3 Archidon, 2 Road Hogs) + Enrage and Wrastler's Rage = +5 damage and free charge for up to 3 highly mobile heavies! I think options such as THAT for TBs are what elricaltovilla may be alluding to... I suspect we will have to wait a bit longer (for memories to lapse) for any major survive-able, hard-hitting multi-wound TB troops. For some reason PP found/finds the combo of MMM (Miserable Meat Mountain) and TBs to be unpalatable. Even in this era. So far. Uh, yeah something like that would be nice in trolls. I want to see more support like the kind that Doomshaper 2 hands out (but not just to beasts) or better recipients for our survivability buffs. In short: buff champs. |
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