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Post by robjos13 on Dec 4, 2019 2:56:19 GMT
So, I am a bigtime tabletop fan and have decided to dabble in the ways of Warmahordes in the form of Khador.
The models look awesome, and I was particularly lured in by the look of the Chariots, Gun Carriage, and the Uhlans.
I know that the ideal would be to list build around a war caster, but which of the three units listed is the most newbie friendly, or which is the most viable after getting over newbie status?
Thanks in advance.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 4, 2019 9:13:58 GMT
Welcome to Khador!
What kind of games/gaming are you into? Casual or competitive? The reason I ask is that these days most competitive play involves the use of themes, and that determines which models you can pick. Of course you can always play out of theme and pick whatever models you like, but you might be at a disadvantage against a theme list if you do so.
As far as themes go, the Warriors of the Old Faith theme allows all three units you have listed, so that's probably the place to start if you want to run themes. Unfortunately in that theme you can only pick Vlad3 from Khador, as it's a mixed theme with Protectorate.
Alternately Armoured Korps allows the chariots and Winter Guard Command allows the gun carriage.
That's... all I got really. I know it's not exactly answering your question, sorry about that. Other forumites will no doubt give you far more useful advice.
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Post by borderprince on Dec 4, 2019 9:51:47 GMT
Soul Samurai has it right about themes being a central way to play the game now and I'll discuss in that context.
The chariots are somewhat polarising models. Some people find them very valuable in the Armored Corps theme. Other people do not. I am in the latter camp, so shan't say more about them. I will say that the Armored Corps theme of which they are a part is one I think is fairly newbie friendly. Individual models in that theme are durable and can individually do decent work, while it works well with a variety of casters. It's also typically smaller model count.
The Gun Carriage is a great, but complicated, model. I like it so much I run a list with two (in the Winter Guard Command theme). Its guns are among the most powerful in faction and the ability to generate rough terrain can be very valuable. It's melee attacks can also knock models down, which is another form of board control. It's tough and fast, with the potential to do lots of melee attacks which are effective against single wound infantry. If you can buff it with abilities that enhance all of its attacks, it just gets better (something like Signs and Portents (Vlad 1) or Hand of Fate (Vlads 2 and 3)). That said, it is not great into opposing models with lots of armor and damage boxes - it can contribute to damaging them, but is not the sort of model you send in to take out an opposing heavy. And as I said, it's complicated because it can do so much, often in one turn. The article about it on Warmachine University talks about all that it can potentially achieve in a single turn and might be helpful (link).
The Uhlans are decent but not great cavalry. They have two major issues at the moment, both of which relate to the themes in which they are available. The first is that they are in the Legion of Steel theme, which is seen as at best second tier with a very limited selection of models. The second is that they are also in Warriors of the Old Faith, where there is an option to use Protectorate of Menoth models. That includes the Exemplar Vengers, which some players on the board think are superior to the Uhlans (in particular, their armor can be improved without needing to be in base to base contact).
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Post by robjos13 on Dec 4, 2019 10:32:48 GMT
Thanks to both of you, I am looking at starting casual, and eventually moving I to competitive after I get enough experience under my belt (and a second list).
Looking at your responses, it looks like Armored Korps and Winter Guard are the advised way to go. It looks like AK are a bit friendlier to the new player, so that will likely be the first list I go for, any things in that theme that are a must buy other than Shocktroopers?
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Dec 4, 2019 11:26:38 GMT
Thanks to both of you, I am looking at starting casual, and eventually moving I to competitive after I get enough experience under my belt (and a second list). Looking at your responses, it looks like Armored Korps and Winter Guard are the advised way to go. It looks like AK are a bit friendlier to the new player, so that will likely be the first list I go for, any things in that theme that are a must buy other than Shocktroopers? That depends a lot on who and how you're running them. Atanovich is pretty much mandatory. I'd suggest looking at some of the threads in this subforum discussing AK tactica to get an idea of what lists tend to look like. I also -strongly- suggest you try a couple of games with proxy models before you make any purchases. A certain playstyle might sound very appealing to you, but once on the table you might discover you can't stand it. Not AK specifically, this applies to all themes. Vlad1+2 and 3 heavy 'jack kits are by far the safest purchase you can make, there is never going to be a situation where they won't be viable (at worst) |
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Dec 4, 2019 12:39:39 GMT
Thanks to both of you, I am looking at starting casual, and eventually moving I to competitive after I get enough experience under my belt (and a second list). Looking at your responses, it looks like Armored Korps and Winter Guard are the advised way to go. It looks like AK are a bit friendlier to the new player, so that will likely be the first list I go for, any things in that theme that are a must buy other than Shocktroopers? Armored Korps and Winterguard are two very good themes. The Gun Carraige is a really good model. Vlad 1 is arguably one of our best casters to run that theme, and relatively easy to learn as far as our casters go. Igor’s thread here has nice battle reports and discussion on this theme and Vlad 1 running it. I personally believe that two Gun Carraiges is absolutely NOT mandatory, and only own 1. As a new player, you could get into this theme right away for 25 point or 35 point games with a couple of jacks, one unit of Winterguard, Kovnik Joe and a Gun Carraige. lormahordes.freeforums.net/thread/9129/running-vlad1-winter-guard-kommandWinterguard is good for keeping your caster alive from guns too, which is nice for a new player, since it’s easy to get your caster assassinated by careless placement. Armored Korps is a ton of fun especially if you like a more grindy game. Shocktroopers are probably mandatory. The tankers are really good. Heck, most of the models in this theme are actually good and balanced. FYI, there’s a Facebook “buy/sell warmachine” forum and a gal named Sadie just posted her Armored Korp army which has the start of a doomreaver army for sale. There might be other deals out there. Bartertown can be OK. It’s nice to jump start into a faction on the cheap and then build out from there. |
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Post by Havock on Dec 4, 2019 12:58:39 GMT
As a new player you can do worse than trying to get one of each battlebox:
-The mk3 version with Kozlov and juggy/Decimator
- The mk2 version with Sorscha and a juggy/destroyer.
The latter is still relatively easy to find online.
Why? Both casters are playable yet quite different and while you are unlikely to play the decimator, having two juggernaut is nice.
You could also not assemble the Decimator until you get a warjack kit and build it as something else.
As for Armored Corps: it arguably is the safest theme playstyle-wise because it is so well rounded.
If you do go in, consider at least the following:
- the shock trooper officer beefs the unit up quite a bit.
- Atanas is a must if you want to bring battle engines.
- the Tanker solos are fantastic.
- a Man o War Kovnik helps a lot in getting them upfield.
- a unit of battle mechanics is easy enough to include and fits in every other theme force as well.
The units are very taste and meta dependent but you can't really go wrong with one unit of shocks with an officer as an anchor.
Also, it's not an opinion shared by everyone but do look at themes: for a new player it cuts down on the "too many things"-issue and it's what most people play. Eventually.
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Post by auraco on Dec 4, 2019 13:40:16 GMT
I'd correct that to say Atanas is a must regardless of what you want to run in armored corps, tactician in an army that tends to bunch up is a really important tool to have.
Armored corps is indeed very well rounded up, the shocktroopers are a good anchor to any list, both kind of tankers are great solos that provide volume of attack that is very much needed to the list.
That being said, the chariot are... too specialised for their point cost and too easy to counter. They are also absurdly easy to kill, I would not recommend buying them if you are just starting the game, they are expansive money wise for models that need specialized list to work.
The gun carriage on the other hand is a very good and reliable model even with minimal support. It's a lot sturdier than the chariots for only a couple of extra points. It's also not as specialised and thus has way less hard counters. Once you get the hang on his rules he's fairly easy to use and a great piece in winterguard kommand. I would recommand buying one if you like the model, it can also fit in a lot of list even list not specialised around supporting it.
The ulhans are... ok, the problem with them is that they can only be played in two theme, legion of steel, probably our worst theme and one I would not recommand buying, and warrior of the old faith. The thing here is that in warrior of the old faith you also have access to the exemplar vengers and after a couple of game with them and a lot of games with the ulhans, I can say I prefer the vengers to the ulhans in all the lists where there is a choice to be made between the two of them.
Warrior of the old faith is a good theme, it's a dual faction theme, so I'd be hesitant to suggest buying into it for a new player, it has limited options being restricted to 4 casters, 3 of them not khadoran casters, so look at Vlad3, if he interests you it might be worth it to buy him and that theme, I also think he's a pretty decent caster to run winterguard kommand with one or two gun carriage, his feat is pretty terrible in general but the gun carriage are probably some of the best models to get use out of it. Dash and hand of fate is also great on winterguard.
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Post by Havock on Dec 4, 2019 18:05:26 GMT
I'd probably take Flamebringers over either, especially when you are already running the best heavy cav unit in the game.
But while Vengers are slightly better, you probably won't win or lose on that selection alone. Also, there is hope for a LoS fix (that or they let the thing and IFP die)
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Post by auraco on Dec 4, 2019 20:27:15 GMT
I haven't heard anything about legion of steel, at the moment its a list of overpriced glass canon models with ok theme benefits but terrible requisition choice.
If you want to run cavalry, run Warrior of the old faith instead.
If you want to run a dudespam you can chose between wolves of winter and flame in the dark, both do it better than legion of steel.
It doesn't leave much niche to legion of steel... Are we expecting them to get fixed?
Flame brigners are great nothing bad to say about them.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Dec 8, 2019 6:24:02 GMT
I haven't heard anything about legion of steel, at the moment its a list of overpriced glass canon models with ok theme benefits but terrible requisition choice. If you want to run cavalry, run Warrior of the old faith instead. If you want to run a dudespam you can chose between wolves of winter and flame in the dark, both do it better than legion of steel. It doesn't leave much niche to legion of steel... Are we expecting them to get fixed? Flame brigners are great nothing bad to say about them. Even just letting Markov be free would have been a reasonable step to helping the theme. Tops out at 16 free points, which is still less than plenty of other themes. As it is the theme is stuck with (I think) the lowest possible number of free points along with all the problems you mentioned. Back on topic: Welcome to Warmachine and Khador! Others have given solid advice already, so I won't add anything else. Cheers, Dave |
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