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Post by Armchair Warrior on Dec 12, 2019 1:11:17 GMT
OK, sorokin, you brought this upon yourself by baiting me with Feora 3. I’m trying to figure out a list that works with her, and makes her work as a competitive (and at least as more than a special snowflake) caster. So here’s a shot at it using the Grolar and Hand of Judgement for obvious reasons. POW 24-26 (!) fists and POW 16-18 guns on a knocked down target are serious business (the Hermit is a free model in this theme, so don’t forget him). POW 19-21 sprays form the Hand of Judgement seem like serious business, and yes the attack rolls when it matters will be SP10, RAT 7, auto boosted. The Devastators seem like the thing that might make her work. She seems allergic to assassination. POW 23 body blockers are a great defense to that. Flame trail on bulldozing models seems hilarious. POW 22 auto damaging rains of death seem like...well, rains of death. Moreover the blast damage in Incite range can crank to POW 13 which now threaten medium infantry. The Archon seems like a no brainer with the Hand in play. A min unit of Vengers is in to get “work” done and deliver on decent volume of high damage melee attacks. A min unit of outriders, with the Hermit delivering Telemetry on top of Incite, seem like a good ranged threat and I only want a min unit since they can’t gallop too far away and expect to benefit from either Incite or Telemetry. Is the package enough? War Room Army Khador - Feora 3 Warriors Theme: Warriors of the Old Faith 75 / 75 Army Feora, the Conquering Flame - WJ: +27 - War Dog - PC: 3 - Hand of Judgment - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Grolar - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Devastator - PC: 14 - Devastator - PC: 14 Menite Archon - PC: 8 Wrack - PC: 1 High Paladin Dartan Vilmon - PC: 0 Hermit of Henge Hold - PC: 0 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Exemplar Vengers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 12 Greylord Outriders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 10 |
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Post by Havock on Dec 12, 2019 2:18:49 GMT
Devastators with Enliven are dumb, by the way.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Dec 12, 2019 3:15:56 GMT
Devastators with Enliven are dumb, by the way. Well it’s not like you can bulldoze on an enliven move. |
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Dec 12, 2019 8:36:40 GMT
OK, sorokin , you brought this upon yourself by baiting me with Feora 3. I’m trying to figure out a list that works with her, and makes her work as a competitive (and at least as more than a special snowflake) caster. So here’s a shot at it using the Grolar and Hand of Judgement for obvious reasons. POW 24-26 (!) fists and POW 16-18 guns on a knocked down target are serious business (the Hermit is a free model in this theme, so don’t forget him). POW 19-21 sprays form the Hand of Judgement seem like serious business, and yes the attack rolls when it matters will be SP10, RAT 7, auto boosted. The Devastators seem like the thing that might make her work. She seems allergic to assassination. POW 23 body blockers are a great defense to that. Flame trail on bulldozing models seems hilarious. POW 22 auto damaging rains of death seem like...well, rains of death. Moreover the blast damage in Incite range can crank to POW 13 which now threaten medium infantry. The Archon seems like a no brainer with the Hand in play. A min unit of Vengers is in to get “work” done and deliver on decent volume of high damage melee attacks. A min unit of outriders, with the Hermit delivering Telemetry on top of Incite, seem like a good ranged threat and I only want a min unit since they can’t gallop too far away and expect to benefit from either Incite or Telemetry. Is the package enough? War Room Army Khador - Feora 3 Warriors Theme: Warriors of the Old Faith 75 / 75 Army Feora, the Conquering Flame - WJ: +27 - War Dog - PC: 3 - Hand of Judgment - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Grolar - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Devastator - PC: 14 - Devastator - PC: 14 Menite Archon - PC: 8 Wrack - PC: 1 High Paladin Dartan Vilmon - PC: 0 Hermit of Henge Hold - PC: 0 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Exemplar Vengers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 12 Greylord Outriders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 10 Well put it on the table and then you can tell me if its enough.  I would be seriously tempoted to put in a battle engine in there though, they got the volume of attacks to make use of incite and can sceen feora. However with the units you probably fare betetr on scenario, which might be more important. |
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Dec 12, 2019 11:30:06 GMT
OK, sorokin , you brought this upon yourself by baiting me with Feora 3. I’m trying to figure out a list that works with her, and makes her work as a competitive (and at least as more than a special snowflake) caster. So here’s a shot at it using the Grolar and Hand of Judgement for obvious reasons. POW 24-26 (!) fists and POW 16-18 guns on a knocked down target are serious business (the Hermit is a free model in this theme, so don’t forget him). POW 19-21 sprays form the Hand of Judgement seem like serious business, and yes the attack rolls when it matters will be SP10, RAT 7, auto boosted. The Devastators seem like the thing that might make her work. She seems allergic to assassination. POW 23 body blockers are a great defense to that. Flame trail on bulldozing models seems hilarious. POW 22 auto damaging rains of death seem like...well, rains of death. Moreover the blast damage in Incite range can crank to POW 13 which now threaten medium infantry. The Archon seems like a no brainer with the Hand in play. A min unit of Vengers is in to get “work” done and deliver on decent volume of high damage melee attacks. A min unit of outriders, with the Hermit delivering Telemetry on top of Incite, seem like a good ranged threat and I only want a min unit since they can’t gallop too far away and expect to benefit from either Incite or Telemetry. Is the package enough? War Room Army Khador - Feora 3 Warriors Theme: Warriors of the Old Faith 75 / 75 Army Feora, the Conquering Flame - WJ: +27 - War Dog - PC: 3 - Devastator - PC: 14 ... Well put it on the table and then you can tell me if its enough. I would be seriously tempoted to put in a battle engine in there though, they got the volume of attacks to make use of incite and can sceen feora. However with the units you probably fare betetr on scenario, which might be more important. I do like the idea of the gun carriage here too, and getting in a bit more early game ranged presence. I think might be a slight upgrade to the list... War Room Army Khador - Feora 3 Warriors Theme: Warriors of the Old Faith 75 / 75 Army Feora, the Conquering Flame - WJ: +27 - Hand of Judgment - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Grolar - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Devastator - PC: 14 Winter Guard Gun Carriage - PC: 17 Menite Archon - PC: 8 Wrack - PC: 1 High Paladin Dartan Vilmon - PC: 0 Hermit of Henge Hold - PC: 0 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Exemplar Vengers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 12 Greylord Outriders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 10 PoW 18” AOE 4 guns and MAT 7, POW 16-18 you-can’t-jam-me impact attacks seem like they could do a lot of work, including medium infantry jammers. |
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Post by auraco on Dec 12, 2019 12:15:43 GMT
It's easy to get the offensive numbers way up when giving us access to choir on khadoran jacks, but I feel like there is a big point no one is mentionning here about running jack heavy in warrior of the old faith. All the casters in the theme are terrible at delivering more than one jack at a time. 3 of the caster have a single upkeep speed buff for jack and the other has boundless charge.
That's why the judicator just feels so attractive when building a list, it's the biggest baddest jack to benefit from that speed buff.
With a lot of jacks you'll have one with a threat range of 10'' or 11'' and the rest will have 8'' or 9'' which is really not that impressive. You also run into the problem of bottle feeding your army to the other guy with the cavalry (and the caster himself) outrunning the rest of the battlegroup and the battlegroup getting there once the party is already over.
A clamjack doesn't seem terrible for Feora3's feat turn, but you could just take a min unit of flame brigners and get way more work out of flame trail for cheaper.
When I try list withouth a judicator, I usually try to go for list that use less point on battlegroup than what the judicator just cost me.
That being said, some options do have their appeal, I'm not a big fan of the clamjacks but giving them access to the choir and enliven is really good, for the devastator at least, the demolisher is still an overcosted jack in need of a redesign.
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Post by Havock on Dec 12, 2019 14:52:48 GMT
Devastators with Enliven are dumb, by the way. Well it’s not like you can bulldoze on an enliven move. It's more that devastators are sturdy enough that they can actually use it, denying the enemy model its full attacks. Which is what even the beefiest models generally need to put a closed clamjack down. So you walk away, possibly heal it up a little with a vassal mechanic and then either load it up and wreck the heavy with MAT8 PS 20 or even 22 fists. Or, if there's infantry you treat them to a POW22/24 rain of death with POW13-15 blast damage up to 3" away. This will murder most single wound infantry and make plenty of medium infantry models nervous. |
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Post by auraco on Dec 12, 2019 15:46:25 GMT
Are you including the hermit in there? Otherwise I'm not sure how you get up to pow 15 blast damage on the rain of death.
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Post by Havock on Dec 12, 2019 16:12:46 GMT
Yeah, 15 is with.
Not that "the shrapnel comes in as hard as an Iron Fang Pikeman"-13 is bad :v
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Dec 12, 2019 20:02:12 GMT
And the Hermit will only take 1 point of damage being in the middle of said rain of death...
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Post by bearstronaut on Dec 14, 2019 0:27:57 GMT
I'm not particularly impressed by the clamjacks or the Grolar (way too expensive). The Devastator is way too slow for the list, and if you're putting a SPD buff on it then it's likely a huge waste. I don't know where the fascination comes with pumping up damage on our mediocre khador jacks comes in, we've always been able to do it. Also, Hermit is probably the least reliable damage fixer for a short-mid ranged army like Old Faith, and when you do get a chance to use him you better be making sure you're crippling your opponent to the point that you've just won the game.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Dec 14, 2019 3:35:02 GMT
I'm not particularly impressed by the clamjacks or the Grolar (way too expensive). The Devastator is way too slow for the list, and if you're putting a SPD buff on it then it's likely a huge waste. I don't know where the fascination comes with pumping up damage on our mediocre khador jacks comes in, we've always been able to do it. Also, Hermit is probably the least reliable damage fixer for a short-mid ranged army like Old Faith, and when you do get a chance to use him you better be making sure you're crippling your opponent to the point that you've just won the game. Not saying either are the cat’s meow, but... - the Grolar is the best non-character assassin jack we have in faction, whose effectiveness cranks up in any list that also boosts the damage of its gun. - ARM 23, steady, sturdy. You don’t take the Devvy for the POW 16, of course, but if you can crank up the damage on it then the pillow fists stop feeling like such a liability. |
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Post by Havock on Dec 14, 2019 6:36:51 GMT
The issue a Devastator normally has is that it can't really do much about that heavy that just failed to kill it.
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Post by auraco on Dec 14, 2019 14:38:47 GMT
The choir does change the math on this one, going from pow 16 to 18 is pretty big. Still not a fan of going jack heavy in that list though, it lacks a meaningful way to speed up more than one jack at the time.
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Post by Havock on Dec 14, 2019 15:49:37 GMT
And Incite tops it off to 20.
It's a bit theoretical and honestly dependant on your list pair but it's basically a counter punch list: run forward, there are so many lists nowadays that can't kill three devastators that easily, especially if they are not allowed to shoot or magic them beforehand.
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