|
Post by Charistoph on Nov 19, 2019 23:42:13 GMT
The chair reference is just because they are about as soulless as a chair. Some of the earlier lit. talks about how dragon's don't register as having souls (and I think even the novel of the Cryx dragon hunter guy mentions it). You can only find them by their blight, the scars they leave on Caen. And their blight is like 1950s giant ant radiation, so the true form of a dragon is the althanc. It is more like having a big chunk of a crystalline heavy metal that exudes Marvel gamma radiation (blight), the kind that makes you big and doesn't give you horrific cancer. Its also the reason why dragon spawn are soulless. If dragons had souls, even the big soup bowls of flesh Everyblight's followers use would spawn creatures with souls. Even the dead can't be animated as soulless. This is why most people who try to approach a dragon die along the way. They don't really make it to the main show. Part of the reason (and I think this is in the old Monnom and League Scars of Caen) they leave soul scars on Dhunia is because they are not natural to planet. It is not energetic soul energy. There are plenty of creatures that have a lot of soul energy, Devourer avatars, the Defiers. The dragons just don't belong there. The dragon form you see in the media is not their real form. It is the best predator form for the planet that they are on (which is funny and explains why dragons are so present throughout other fantasy verses, kinda of meta, IKRPG material mentions this too). When they are stripped of their body it takes them a LONG time to reform it and they are most vulnerable during this state to other dragons. This is why most dragons flee (even Toruk) when they get minor injuries. The threat of absorption is too great. And during Metamorphisis, Everblight's whole althanc is in Thagrosh, and its division and the idea that he will reside in a divided state happens after. He could have just had Thagrosh find a sweet spot to chill, accumulate matter and reform himself over four centuries. Chimera and the resulting Stormlands, Abyss, and near destruction of Ios proves you can't really even destroy an althanc and even questions if dragons can even enter the spiritual realm. Dragons have a lot of knowledge and if a human could walk into Urcaen like in the Strangelight Anthology, dragons could figure it out too, they just know it is not a good idea. The Infernals are more a threat to the followers of Toruk because even Iron Liches have souls, and Infernals on Caen don't need a contract to take them, only proximity. Whether it is the undead or living in the Nightmare Empire, they all got souls and most are human. As formless creatures who are more just expressions of pure will who reside in the spirit realm of outer space and inner space (the void between planets and atoms) Infernals don't really care about the physical body of a human. They are only concerned with the human souls offered by the Claiming; living body, dead body, construct body doesn't matter.
You say this as if it counters anything I've said and as if I'm saying that the dragons have souls.
I have not said this. I have stated that the athancs have power, because they do. I said nothing about it being the power of a soul (or at least the type of souls we see on Caen). It may take a lot of time for the Infernals to draw out the power of the athanc, but I'm saying that they would find it an objective worth pursuing. Toruk's would be impossible to access at this point because it is just too powerful. Its children are far more vulnerable, though. If the Infernals can find the links between the athancs, they could use them to make Toruk vulnerable.
The chair connection was pointless because it extremely downplayed the amount of power and level of danger that the athanc presents, both from its blight as well as the ability to grow in to a giant monster.
|
|
|
Post by marxlives on Nov 20, 2019 15:12:48 GMT
Basically how I see zu is the “China/Southeast Asia” faction. So their warbeasts could be Chinese dragon type creatures, rakasha, kitsune, etc. Fluff wise it’d be interesting for there also to be some humans there. Now the culture may be very different because of isolation. The only way they could ever get included in the main story though is perhaps them launching some sort of navel invasion I believe the only characters that come from Zu are the totem hunter and Balthazar Bamfist. Zu is usually described more as a jungle landscape similar to the amazon or south America more than chinese. Definitely got more of a South Asian/Indian sub continent vibe from one of the NQs.
|
|
|
Post by marxlives on Nov 20, 2019 15:17:19 GMT
That still doesn't mean that Toruk is down in Neo-Mechanika's timeline, or any future success on the Infernals part that is not Riot Quest doesn't take him down, either. That is one of the issues of timelines, they are possibilities until actions make them reality. In some cases, they are treated equally valid, the multiverse has already prepared a different universe for such eventualities. Or in other words, "Multiverse theory's a b****." Toruk's dead doe, and as the saying goes "When you're dead, you're &&&&ing dead!" - from "The Crow"
|
|
|
Post by marxlives on Nov 20, 2019 15:39:34 GMT
The chair reference is just because they are about as soulless as a chair. Some of the earlier lit. talks about how dragon's don't register as having souls (and I think even the novel of the Cryx dragon hunter guy mentions it). You can only find them by their blight, the scars they leave on Caen. And their blight is like 1950s giant ant radiation, so the true form of a dragon is the althanc. It is more like having a big chunk of a crystalline heavy metal that exudes Marvel gamma radiation (blight), the kind that makes you big and doesn't give you horrific cancer. Its also the reason why dragon spawn are soulless. If dragons had souls, even the big soup bowls of flesh Everyblight's followers use would spawn creatures with souls. Even the dead can't be animated as soulless. This is why most people who try to approach a dragon die along the way. They don't really make it to the main show. Part of the reason (and I think this is in the old Monnom and League Scars of Caen) they leave soul scars on Dhunia is because they are not natural to planet. It is not energetic soul energy. There are plenty of creatures that have a lot of soul energy, Devourer avatars, the Defiers. The dragons just don't belong there. The dragon form you see in the media is not their real form. It is the best predator form for the planet that they are on (which is funny and explains why dragons are so present throughout other fantasy verses, kinda of meta, IKRPG material mentions this too). When they are stripped of their body it takes them a LONG time to reform it and they are most vulnerable during this state to other dragons. This is why most dragons flee (even Toruk) when they get minor injuries. The threat of absorption is too great. And during Metamorphisis, Everblight's whole althanc is in Thagrosh, and its division and the idea that he will reside in a divided state happens after. He could have just had Thagrosh find a sweet spot to chill, accumulate matter and reform himself over four centuries. Chimera and the resulting Stormlands, Abyss, and near destruction of Ios proves you can't really even destroy an althanc and even questions if dragons can even enter the spiritual realm. Dragons have a lot of knowledge and if a human could walk into Urcaen like in the Strangelight Anthology, dragons could figure it out too, they just know it is not a good idea. The Infernals are more a threat to the followers of Toruk because even Iron Liches have souls, and Infernals on Caen don't need a contract to take them, only proximity. Whether it is the undead or living in the Nightmare Empire, they all got souls and most are human. As formless creatures who are more just expressions of pure will who reside in the spirit realm of outer space and inner space (the void between planets and atoms) Infernals don't really care about the physical body of a human. They are only concerned with the human souls offered by the Claiming; living body, dead body, construct body doesn't matter.
You say this as if it counters anything I've said and as if I'm saying that the dragons have souls.
I have not said this. I have stated that the athancs have power, because they do. I said nothing about it being the power of a soul (or at least the type of souls we see on Caen). It may take a lot of time for the Infernals to draw out the power of the athanc, but I'm saying that they would find it an objective worth pursuing. Toruk's would be impossible to access at this point because it is just too powerful. Its children are far more vulnerable, though. If the Infernals can find the links between the athancs, they could use them to make Toruk vulnerable.
The chair connection was pointless because it extremely downplayed the amount of power and level of danger that the athanc presents, both from its blight as well as the ability to grow in to a giant monster.
As gods and creatures of will who only exist in the distance between stars and atoms, they really don't have a desire for whatever power Toruk has. They could kill him by psychic assault (dragons are sort of creatures of will too that reside in an althanc) and make it into just another highly radiated rock. But they don't really get anything out of him. Toruks title God of Caen is significant. He is god of the material world, or as close to a god as one could get, and that means something. He has no soul. Oblivion did a really good job in wrapping up the cosmology. The world itself seems to be totally dominated by a animism/numen meets Celtic fey wilds lore. Urcaen is the spirit world and all the geography in the material is present there but it is dialed to 11...,000 and the "fey" that live there are actually souls and gods who influence the material world and vice versa. While there are gods of Immoren and other planets, from an animism pov the updated lore answers the question "are there gods of outer space, where life is bacterial at most, and it is only filled with wave frequencies". The answer appears to be yes, yes there are. Creatures of pure will that hunger for souls because even their siren call can bring the Infernals substance and form, the thing they hunger for most. They would see Toruk as a potential threat to their Claiming (he has a lot of human followers and they provide a buffer against other dragons) but he is not a resource. Not in the same way the Elven god were, nom nom. And since the Infernals ate most of Immoren's time gods or numen (not just elves though the time gods created elves), you could say this is why the IKs is....running out of time.
|
|
|
Post by Charistoph on Nov 20, 2019 16:25:32 GMT
That still doesn't mean that Toruk is down in Neo-Mechanika's timeline, or any future success on the Infernals part that is not Riot Quest doesn't take him down, either. That is one of the issues of timelines, they are possibilities until actions make them reality. In some cases, they are treated equally valid, the multiverse has already prepared a different universe for such eventualities. Or in other words, "Multiverse theory's a b****." Toruk's dead doe, and as the saying goes "When you're dead, you're &&&&ing dead!" - from "The Crow" Actually, we have so little information on the WM 5K timeline that we don't know what Toruk is up to, dead or alive. It's not dead in the Oblivion (aka "current") timeline, just dead in the Riot Quest timeline. Making it dead in one possible future, doesn't make it dead in every future. Even having it dead in two different futures doesn't make it dead by the same group or the same method. Heck, Toruk being successful on Caen could be one of the reasons for the diaspora of WM 5K.
With Neo-Mechanika, it is just a case of too many unknowns at this point.
As gods and creatures of will who only exist in the distance between stars and atoms, they really don't have a desire for whatever power Toruk has. They could kill him by psychic assault (dragons are sort of creatures of will too that reside in an althanc) and make it into just another highly radiated rock. But they don't really get anything out of him. Toruks title God of Caen is significant. He is god of the material world, or as close to a god as one could get, and that means something. He has no soul. Oblivion did a really good job in wrapping up the cosmology. The world itself seems to be totally dominated by a animism/numen meets Celtic fey wilds lore. Urcaen is the spirit world and all the geography in the material is present there but it is dialed to 11...,000 and the "fey" that live there are actually souls and gods who influence the material world and vice versa. While there are gods of Immoren and other planets, from an animism pov the updated lore answers the question "are there gods of outer space, where life is bacterial at most, and it is only filled with wave frequencies". The answer appears to be yes, yes there are. Creatures of pure will that hunger for souls because even their siren call can bring the Infernals substance and form, the thing they hunger for most. They would see Toruk as a potential threat to their Claiming (he has a lot of human followers and they provide a buffer against other dragons) but he is not a resource. Not in the same way the Elven god were, nom nom. And since the Infernals ate most of Immoren's time gods or numen (not just elves though the time gods created elves), you could say this is why the IKs is....running out of time. Toruk's athanc is not a normal resource, nor have I said otherwise. Toruk could have the equivalent of a soul, it is just so ridiculously alien that it would be unrecognizable as such to the "normal" perspective of humans, Infernals, or even the gods of Caen. To a human, a cow pie is not really appetizing, but to a fly, it is a delight. An athanc is brimming with power, though. This is evidient with the power of its blight as well as its ability to generate matter. Being able to tap that power against the will in the athanc would be quite the coup. That is all I have been saying.
As for Toruk being a threat. Yeah, I doubt that there would be many that wouldn't recognize that. That being said, recognizing a threat and being able to counter it are two different scenarios.
|
|
gupp
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
|
Post by gupp on Nov 23, 2019 19:54:58 GMT
I’ve thought more about a troll- farrow theme, and it seems fairly likely to me. I’ve thought a madrak- carver alliance would be interesting. It would be similar to in Scotland, two clans putting aside their feud.
Units- kriel warriors, champions, stone bearers, fell callers. All farrow units. Casters- madrak and carver only. Theme bonus- all count as friendly faction.
New models- Carver 2, sitting on throne. farrow centaurs- products of arkadius, half pig, half farrow.
|
|
gupp
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
|
Post by gupp on Dec 6, 2019 1:21:37 GMT
I feel like farrow are established enough that they could get a gargantuan- i feel like a giant warthog type creature could be appropriate. It could have spikes coming out of it, and also just sort of look like a giant Pleistocene mammal.
The most recent primecast mentioned this coming around lock & load next year.
|
|
gupp
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
|
Post by gupp on Dec 6, 2019 2:58:22 GMT
I feel like farrow are established enough that they could get a gargantuan- i feel like a giant warthog/bear/man type creature could be appropriate. It could have spikes coming out of it, and also just sort of look like a giant Pleistocene mammal. The most recent primecast mentioned this coming around lock & load next year.
|
|
zhoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 254
|
Post by zhoe on Dec 6, 2019 6:57:11 GMT
I feel like farrow are established enough that they could get a gargantuan- i feel like a giant warthog/bear/man type creature could be appropriate. It could have spikes coming out of it, and also just sort of look like a giant Pleistocene mammal. The most recent primecast mentioned this coming around lock & load next year.
|
|
|
Post by elricaltovilla on Dec 6, 2019 12:08:32 GMT
I feel like farrow are established enough that they could get a gargantuan- i feel like a giant warthog/bear/man type creature could be appropriate. It could have spikes coming out of it, and also just sort of look like a giant Pleistocene mammal. The most recent primecast mentioned this coming around lock & load next year.
|
|
|
Post by gobber on Dec 6, 2019 16:21:44 GMT
a giant warthog/bear/man type creature. Al Gore has warned us about this for years
|
|
|
Post by Charistoph on Dec 6, 2019 18:51:01 GMT
Al Gore has warned us about this for years Really, I thought he was whining about how they'd all be killed off before they could do anything.
|
|
gupp
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
|
Post by gupp on Dec 8, 2019 0:06:24 GMT
Imagine it given a real ik rpg entry It’s kind of a thing the farrow need, just some high unmitigated aggression... something that’s sort of a primeval spawn of the union and Dhunia
|
|
zhoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 254
|
Post by zhoe on Dec 8, 2019 2:32:07 GMT
all piggy beasties r maked by dr arkadiass. don think eh can get em dat big
|
|
|
Post by elricaltovilla on Dec 8, 2019 3:01:42 GMT
According to the RPG books, the bigger pig warbeasts are just a thing that happens sometimes when a Farrow gives birth. Brine wasn't modified by Arkadias at all, for example.
I think giving birth to a gargantuan sized pig might be... difficult, but maybe? Magic is a thing.
|
|