|
Helga2
Jan 13, 2020 13:23:11 GMT
via mobile
Post by Corrupted Bauer on Jan 13, 2020 13:23:11 GMT
I don’t know if I’d like horsepower but that’s more from the point of Helga is just taking half of kraye’s kit and his unique spell then essentially and that’s just kinda unfun. I’m still mostly hoping for escort just. The extra tankiness seems right up where she’d want to be.
Other half of new stuff from the discord is she doesn’t just have a bat, she also has a chain as a weapon (hungerford said think lobo or spawn) plus her mount so 3 initials seems legit depending on the stats
|
|
|
Helga2
Jan 13, 2020 13:44:57 GMT
Post by Azahul on Jan 13, 2020 13:44:57 GMT
Oh a third initial is excellent news. Every swing is a bit of extra insurance that she can take down a heavy with enough Fury to spare to sprint back and hopefully even camp a little. Hard to imagine three initials, two of them benefitting from the Strength boost from Engine and all three of them benefitting from Primed, being anything but legit.
For what it's worth, while I had the same initial reaction to reading Horsepower, I think she's more like Butcher3 camouflaged as Kraye. Her entire kit seems built around the idea that she should be the one in the army doing damage, and then being able to get back to safety. Horsepower means that, like Butcher3, she can speed up a battlegroup to serve as a distraction and provide some board presence, even if the expectation is that she's the one doing damage based on the fact that most of their respective spell lists are dedicated to just making themselves better. Her personal threat ranges and capacity to kill multiple bunched up models are equivalent, and they both have Feats seemingly designed to allow them to survive doing work.
Kraye doesn't play remotely like that, in spite of quantity of shared texts on their cards. The similarities might be clear on paper, but I think they'll play very differently indeed on the table.
|
|
|
Helga2
Jan 13, 2020 14:15:56 GMT
Post by charlzheimer on Jan 13, 2020 14:15:56 GMT
Hmmmm, well I don't hate it if it does turn out to be accurate. Not an upkeep, so it doesn't muck with and potentially cause order of activation issues with the "Put Primed on Helga" plan. Not particularly expensive either, which is a blessing if she turns out to still be Fury 6. The main downside is that it's a movement buff rather than a speed buff, so no synergy with the Feat. Was that all of the leaked spoilers? Any indication of her stats? It does look like they got the name of Helga's "stuff becomes cavalry" rule wrong, so I'm not 100% convinced that it's accurate, but hey need something to tide my brain over until the full spoilers come out in a couple of days. i assume his mistakes comes from him keeping it brief. i hope its correct cuz i'm loving the rules on this.
|
|
|
Helga2
Jan 13, 2020 14:27:07 GMT
Post by Azahul on Jan 13, 2020 14:27:07 GMT
Yeah, I'm pretty happy with how she's shaping up. All I really have left on the wishlist are that she's Speed 8 and has decent base combat stats so that putting Primed on her feels like a choice rather than a necessity. P+S 13+ on at least one weapon, basically.
My one disappointment is that I think she's still missing a way to make a Meat Thresher truly shine. Reposition is huge, but that just means it can somewhat compete with an Animantarax's ranged performance (admittedly missing the option to trample and shoot and while being a poor, poor, pooooor substitute in melee). Without a way to up the output of that gun, I don't see any reason to risk running two and sinking half the points of my list into models that can only reasonably perform against Arm 18 or less enemies who aren't immune to knockdown. One extra POW 12 impact attack doesn't feel like quite enough.
|
|
|
Helga2
Jan 13, 2020 16:16:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by custardboy on Jan 13, 2020 16:16:48 GMT
Unless she has snipe or something I don't see meat threshers being relevant. They just aren't good battle engines, and all the stuff they're good against are pushed out of the metagame.
Having a third initial would certainly help. As someone who loves their super solo casters I'm endeared by pigs getting their first combat caster, though having to spend so much fury before they can take on decent targets leaves a bit of reservation. We also don't known her base stats, and Helga1 isn't exactly a good fighter.
I suspect her feat will just be used to get her out. If it doesn't stack with field marshal Reposition, that's pretty trash. If feat just lets her do her thing and not die for one turn, that's not too bad really... Though we have sprint as an animus so...
|
|
|
Helga2
Jan 13, 2020 16:39:44 GMT
via mobile
Post by Corrupted Bauer on Jan 13, 2020 16:39:44 GMT
I think one place they could further improve meat threshers on her is in this spd buff spell on her. If it can match wild ride in being BG + BE then I’ll be happily dropping 2 meat threshers in all her lists.
Also the feat most likely stack with repo or sprint unless they mess up doing the refuge wording. Repo and sprint already don’t stack So this is hopeful maybe
|
|
vomath
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
|
Helga2
Jan 13, 2020 17:56:26 GMT
via mobile
Post by vomath on Jan 13, 2020 17:56:26 GMT
Refuge doesn't stack with Sprint or Repo, so I think we can assume her Feat won't either.
|
|
|
Helga2
Jan 13, 2020 19:59:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by Corrupted Bauer on Jan 13, 2020 19:59:10 GMT
Refuge doesn't stack with Sprint or Repo, so I think we can assume her Feat won't either. Bad wording on my end. It can stack if they use the “after” clause instead of end of activation. It would probably look closer to stryker2 or magnus1 feat at that point which I guess is kinda worse but there are ways to word it to stack So worded as “After a friendly model/unit in Helga’s control area ends it’s activation, if they hit a model during their activation they may make a full advance ignoring free strikes”
|
|
vomath
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
|
Helga2
Jan 13, 2020 20:42:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by vomath on Jan 13, 2020 20:42:56 GMT
Yep, that makes sense. I'm not hopeful that that's how it will be worded, but we'll know soon enough!
|
|
|
Helga2
Jan 13, 2020 22:27:43 GMT
via mobile
Post by custardboy on Jan 13, 2020 22:27:43 GMT
We have beasts with 3 instances of overtake, so 3 instances of reposition sounds about right. Stacking them sure wouldn't be OP, I do that with thags2 all the time. 4 of my beasts have spd 7 flying sprints before his feat.
|
|
|
Helga2
Jan 13, 2020 23:22:51 GMT
Post by Azahul on Jan 13, 2020 23:22:51 GMT
Unless she has snipe or something I don't see meat threshers being relevant. They just aren't good battle engines, and all the stuff they're good against are pushed out of the metagame. Having a third initial would certainly help. As someone who loves their super solo casters I'm endeared by pigs getting their first combat caster, though having to spend so much fury before they can take on decent targets leaves a bit of reservation. We also don't known her base stats, and Helga1 isn't exactly a good fighter. I suspect her feat will just be used to get her out. If it doesn't stack with field marshal Reposition, that's pretty trash. If feat just lets her do her thing and not die for one turn, that's not too bad really... Though we have sprint as an animus so... I think Snipe is pretty unnecessary when she's giving them Reposition. 15" is plenty of distance in most circumstances to have between the Meat Thresher and its target, and it already has 20" of move and shoot threat. The problem with Meat Threshers for me is that the statlines they excel against fall into a pretty narrow window. Getting boosted charge attacks, even on Large bases, opens up things a little on, say, the Circle Orboros and Grymkin sides of things, but the latter will usually be too high arm for the Meat Thresher to be truly effective. As for her Fury, I think I've already slotted Eilish, a Soul Slave, and a Bone Shrine into any list she's in sight unseen. Puppet Master helps smooth out the dice rolls, and the other two mean that she should still have 5 Fury to play with after Primed and Engine of Destruction. Even if she's no better than her original version stat-wise and her highest P+S attack is 12, she'll still up to have eight attacks and at least six of them will be Mat 12 P+S 18. That'll function fine against most things outside of Skorne, really. And yeah, by and large my read on the Feat is that you use it if you go in on a target and dice fail you and you won't be able to finish off the target and sprint back to safety on enough camp to survive then you pop the Feat before making your final attack so that you can speed on out of there without paying the extra Fury. It's also decent to keep in your back pocket in case your Road Hogs die and you still need Helga to pull off some more hit-and-run shenanigans. It's pretty reasonable on Meat Threshers too, giving them a Speed 8 sprint should help to get the occasional bit of work out of them safely.
|
|
|
Helga2
Jan 14, 2020 0:19:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by custardboy on Jan 14, 2020 0:19:49 GMT
I meant snipe as basically 'a spell that's specifically good on meat threshers.' You're right that their primary issue is they just aren't very good against the targets you are worried about most of the time.
I'm really hoping she has another non-self/upkeep spell so it's worth taking the soul slave for more than the free upkeep.
|
|
vomath
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
|
Helga2
Jan 14, 2020 0:51:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by vomath on Jan 14, 2020 0:51:25 GMT
Molten Metal would be kinda on brand and okayish for the Soul Slave to cast. Though, I'm not expecting her to have more than four spells. I'm guessing:
SPD 7 MAT 6 DEF 14 ARM 16 HP 17 FURY 6
Bat - 1" - P+S 12 Chain - 2" - P+S 10
The four spells as spoiled and the Feat is worded as army wide Refuge.
|
|
|
Helga2
Jan 14, 2020 0:59:47 GMT
Post by Azahul on Jan 14, 2020 0:59:47 GMT
Strictly speaking, if any Fury 6 Warlock were to have more than four spells, it would be on brand for Helga to be the one I really, really hope though that they don't lumber her with the same 14/16 statline that Midas and Sturm have to deal with, especially given her larger base size. And Speed 7 would be disappointing, as much for the fact that her model is so thematically in line with the Meat Thresher that deviating in that respect would stick out like a sore thumb. I half expect her to be Speed 7, but it would be a blow. Those stats are definitely the lowest bar that I would expect, I'm really hoping she's both a bit tankier and a bit more threatening.
|
|
|
Helga2
Jan 14, 2020 1:13:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by custardboy on Jan 14, 2020 1:13:16 GMT
The lowest bar is kinda expected for an engine of destruction caster... I hope for better defences too, but I don't expect any other stats better than above. 14/14 after upkeeping primed on herself would dash our dreams.
I'd love for her (and Helga1) to realise they're a Farrow warlord and go to mat 7 though.
|
|