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Post by Charistoph on Oct 4, 2019 5:31:44 GMT
As I was perusing the information on the Mercenary Warjacks earlier, I noticed a lot of them are former Cygnar equipment, along with some repurposed labor jacks. This prompted me to think, why do we not see any from Khador or the Protectorate?
While I can definitely see the Protectorate doing its best to to hide their old warrior labor jacks, the idea of needing to hide them is quite long past.
As for Khador, are their scrappers just so efficient and incorruptible that none of the old sell swords could get their hands on them, or are they just so dang solid and effective that their first line is still in production and use? Either way, a few questions for you:
Cygnar players, would you consider fielding the Nomad, Mule, or Talon in your Battlegroups if they received the Maker's Mark? Mercenary players, would the idea of an out-moded Khador or Protectorate Jack seem attractive when compared to the 'Jacks you already have, or would having new "oil" help reinvigorate your Battlegroups? Khador and Protectorate players, would having those new "old" 'Jacks seem like a good idea to work with, or would sharing them with the sell swords feel like they are even cheaper? And just so the last of the original 4 are not left out, Cryx players, would adding the Privateer 'Jacks like the Freebooter and the Buccaneer to your stable for your own pirate ladies (or more) seem attractive to your lists? Sorry Retribution, Rhulics, and Convergence 'Casters, you're just too much out of the loop to join in on these.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 4, 2019 7:50:59 GMT
Old Kador jacks tend to explode, so nobody seems to want them. We still have them lying around in storage, but nobody except Karchev ever uses them.
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Post by tiberius on Oct 4, 2019 14:16:01 GMT
I am sure Cryx will take any scrap or jack left laying around. Add a little tortured soul corruption, slap an arc node on it and send it back in! Seriously though, a buccaneer wouldn't be bad. A light with a knock down AOE. That would help with some tough roll problems and get around the need of grevious wounds everywhere. But then stalkers just tend to be really good.
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zhoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 254
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Post by zhoe on Oct 4, 2019 14:44:19 GMT
i accidentaly lieked dis post but i did not accualy lik it
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gupp
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by gupp on Oct 4, 2019 15:51:06 GMT
Basically it comes down to flavor vs balance. Would it actually matter much? Not sure
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Post by anderfreak on Oct 4, 2019 20:39:24 GMT
Having privateer jacks in cryx would be pretty appealing for rahera.
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Post by kjata on Oct 4, 2019 21:49:01 GMT
I think that protectorate jacks are pretty crap without all their holy oils and without choir singing to them, and such. Like, the merc jacks compare favourably to protectorate jacks when you compare the base statlines, so why would mercs want the older, crappier jacks from the desert? Not only that, but spraying fire everywhere is pretty rough and traumatizing to be near, and if you aren't on a holy mission to burn all the non believers to death, I don't think you would want to be near something that might accidentally burn you up. Not only that, but cygnar is the nation most likely to sell off old jacks that are no longer up to code, so they are probably cheaper than prying hardware from an angry hate filled nation. While I could see nerds employing salvaged protectorate jacks, it's probably just significantly easier and more effective to spend money on old cygnar ones.
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Post by autocorrecthaslimits on Oct 4, 2019 22:33:59 GMT
I think that protectorate jacks are pretty crap without all their holy oils and without choir singing to them, and such. Like, the merc jacks compare favourably to protectorate jacks when you compare the base statlines, so why would mercs want the older, crappier jacks from the desert? Not only that, but spraying fire everywhere is pretty rough and traumatizing to be near, and if you aren't on a holy mission to burn all the non believers to death, I don't think you would want to be near something that might accidentally burn you up. Not only that, but cygnar is the nation most likely to sell off old jacks that are no longer up to code, so they are probably cheaper than prying hardware from an angry hate filled nation. While I could see nerds employing salvaged protectorate jacks, it's probably just significantly easier and more effective to spend money on old cygnar ones. Makes alot of sense from a lore point of view, but man caine3 with repenters/redeemers and menite archons/choir would be super fun!!
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Post by Charistoph on Oct 4, 2019 23:54:27 GMT
i accidentaly lieked dis post but i did not accualy lik it Come on, Bonnie. Why not? Elucidate, please.
I think that protectorate jacks are pretty crap without all their holy oils and without choir singing to them, and such. Like, the merc jacks compare favourably to protectorate jacks when you compare the base statlines, so why would mercs want the older, crappier jacks from the desert? Not only that, but spraying fire everywhere is pretty rough and traumatizing to be near, and if you aren't on a holy mission to burn all the non believers to death, I don't think you would want to be near something that might accidentally burn you up. Not only that, but cygnar is the nation most likely to sell off old jacks that are no longer up to code, so they are probably cheaper than prying hardware from an angry hate filled nation. While I could see nerds employing salvaged protectorate jacks, it's probably just significantly easier and more effective to spend money on old cygnar ones. Makes alot of sense from a lore point of view, but man caine3 with repenters/redeemers and menite archons/choir would be super fun!! Keep in mind, these would not be any model currently in existence. These would be 'Jacks that, in the fluff, would have been put to pasture before the current lines were in use and may be lacking some of those more exotic touches that the Protectorate put in place to keep them under the inspector's radar. That may be a little hard to find in the Protectorate, because most of them were just modified labor jacks, but I just thought it would be interesting to consider the possibilities of them, even if they were just really cheap spam 'jacks.
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gupp
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by gupp on Oct 5, 2019 1:07:54 GMT
I’m actually more in favor of the hordes variant- wild beasts that are available to multiple factions.
In general, hordes bestiaries are a lot less full than warmachine ones, and a lot more lists could probably benefit from a no-frills all rounder.
As a trade off, I’d Like them to have super low threshold values to represent their untamed nature
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Post by Charistoph on Oct 5, 2019 1:42:19 GMT
I’m actually more in favor of the hordes variant- wild beasts that are available to multiple factions. In general, hordes bestiaries are a lot less full than warmachine ones, and a lot more lists could probably benefit from a no-frills all rounder. As a trade off, I’d Like them to have super low threshold values to represent their untamed nature
Interesting idea. A looser form of what Skorne gets to have with their Disciples of Agony. We already see it with a certain Lesser getting access to a Troll, though, I don't know how common that one is taken.
They don't just have to have lower Threshold values, either, but maybe lower skills (MAT/RAT or fewer model abilities) than their more "trained for war" variants. Maybe even starting with variants of the Bull Snapper, Bears, Razor Boars, and Tatzlwurms as a place to start and give some variety to the Minion list as well.
I was thinking what a heavy Hydra or a light Hydra would be like, but change them to different environs (current Gargant is the Desert Hydra, so like a Swamp Hydra). That could be an interesting avenue to take as well.
I think the Legion won't be giving of their variants too much, but an Enslaved Full Troll that the others might take advantage of could work. Wouldn't be that powerful, but could add interesting concepts.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Oct 5, 2019 3:02:37 GMT
I’m actually more in favor of the hordes variant- wild beasts that are available to multiple factions. In general, hordes bestiaries are a lot less full than warmachine ones, and a lot more lists could probably benefit from a no-frills all rounder. As a trade off, I’d Like them to have super low threshold values to represent their untamed nature
Interesting idea. A looser form of what Skorne gets to have with their Disciples of Agony. We already see it with a certain Lesser getting access to a Troll, though, I don't know how common that one is taken.
They don't just have to have lower Threshold values, either, but maybe lower skills (MAT/RAT or fewer model abilities) than their more "trained for war" variants. Maybe even starting with variants of the Bull Snapper, Bears, Razor Boars, and Tatzlwurms as a place to start and give some variety to the Minion list as well.
I was thinking what a heavy Hydra or a light Hydra would be like, but change them to different environs (current Gargant is the Desert Hydra, so like a Swamp Hydra). That could be an interesting avenue to take as well.
I think the Legion won't be giving of their variants too much, but an Enslaved Full Troll that the others might take advantage of could work. Wouldn't be that powerful, but could add interesting concepts.
A cool idea, but it can easily clash with the lore. Jacks are a lot more interchangable than beasts. I don't think non-blighted trolls serving factions other than TB is a good idea, it would erode their faction identity. Considering PP made a slight resculpt of Skarath for WW, there really is no excuse for the fact minions can't run generic tatzyls.
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zhoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 254
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Post by zhoe on Oct 5, 2019 3:25:33 GMT
i accidentaly lieked dis post but i did not accualy lik it Come on, Bonnie. Why not? Elucidate, please.
[quote timestamp=" i cliked it by mistaek
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Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 5, 2019 3:30:06 GMT
Keep in mind, these would not be any model currently in existence. These would be 'Jacks that, in the fluff, would have been put to pasture before the current lines were in use and may be lacking some of those more exotic touches that the Protectorate put in place to keep them under the inspector's radar. That may be a little hard to find in the Protectorate, because most of them were just modified labor jacks, but I just thought it would be interesting to consider the possibilities of them, even if they were just really cheap spam 'jacks. Did the Protectorate have jacks back then? Or rather, was there even a Protectorate back then? Fluff-wise I think the Protectorate as a whole is not very old, not very rich, and they are not particularly technologically advanced, so I don't see them having iterated their warjack design very much in order to have old ones that aren't worth keeping around anymore. Did they even ever build their own labourjacks? Or have they only ever built warjacks disguised as labourjacks? Khador have had warjacks for ages but cortexes are so expensive that they would rather keep working them until they explode than sell them. Cygnar is the "west" of the Iron Kingdoms, buying new iphones and selling the old ones every time a new model comes out. Everyone else uses uses their phones until they break so they never have old phones lying around to sell. It's probably like how in some countries labour is cheap enough to justify spending many man-hours repairing things, in others labour is too expensive so it's cheaper to throw stuff away and buy new ones. Like how in some countries you see loads of really old cars driving around, in others you don't. Cryx is basically running on free slave labour and will happily take any old junk they can find and build necrothralls or whatever from them, so why sell anything? Re-duce re-use re-animate, right?
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bacon
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by bacon on Oct 5, 2019 5:12:16 GMT
We already see it with a certain Lesser getting access to a Troll, though, I don't know how common that one is taken. To be fair gatorman, bogtrog, and croak warlocks bond with beasts based on their shared connection to the swamp. By the lore all blindwater locks should be able to control a swamp troll.
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