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Post by greytemplar on Sept 20, 2019 7:19:23 GMT
Carver is definitely not even close to being a worst caster. IMO, the only reason he isn't in A+, or even S tier, is because he is a Minion Warlock, but that really applies to all of the Minions really. If you put him in another faction, he would be absolutely amazing. Mobility and Batten Down the Hatches alone makes him a great battlegroup caster.
If you really want a garbage caster, Malakus is a contender.
When you look at his kit individually, it looks like maybe it could be good. Then you realize that you can't really use all of his tools together in a cohesive manner. Even outside Protectorate he would struggle to have relevance even if you could cherry pick a faction for him.
You can't use Open Fire effectively because he has no to hit buffs, other than the insanely expensive Scourge which precludes you from using Open fire enough to make it worthwhile. And Open Fire is on top of all that overpriced for a spell that has such a crippling limitation. His feat buffs fire damage, but damage isn't the problem. Hitting is the main problem. And he does nothing to help with that other than a massively overpriced knockdown spell. And to add a little more insult he has Ignite, another damage buff. Which is fine and all, but it just rams the point home that damage is not a problem.
He's really just an incoherent mess of a caster that lacks any vision for what he is supposed to be doing. So instead of turning the fire theme into what could have easily been a nicely concise and focused caster just ends up being a mess of random fire buff's and abilities that don't work together at all.
What's really sad is he is so close to being good. A few minor verbege tweaks would make him a great ranged caster.
Change Open Fire to be Cost 1 and change his feat to also give a +2 to ranged attack rolls with a Fire/Critial Fire damage type weapon and he'd have an actual niche as a gunline caster.
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Post by hypnotoad on Sept 20, 2019 12:47:10 GMT
How PP handled the early Cygnar nerfs really made me question their competency as developers. They tiptoed around Haley 2s feat, nerfing every other part of her kit, then when they finally addressed the feat which was the real issue, did they revert the other changes? Did they fcuk! Also 1 less wj point for Haley 1? Am still waiting to hear the rationale behind that, and I can never forgive them for making Caine 2 a meme tier caster. Its like they went 'hey! this caster that has virtually no support for his army and is all about personal output! Their output is too much of an NPE, so lets nerf that. Shall we increase his army support to make up for it? No fudge that! Im sure he wont be garbage' And dont get me started on Heavy Metal not having a merc solo for so long... I had to quit Cygnar in the end and play mercs, it just pisses me off too much to think about how badly PP screwed them up Here's hoping Riot Quest tanks so bad that they sell the warmachine IP. I'm not confident any designers left at PP know how to fix the game or has the willpower to do so.
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Post by Charistoph on Sept 20, 2019 14:03:28 GMT
They can't sell the IP without completely restructuring Neo-Warcaster. It would almost be like GW selling off Warhammer: Age of Sigmar, but keeping Warhammer: 40,000.
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Post by michael on Sept 20, 2019 14:21:08 GMT
Good job, shoe! It took a couple days, but the insane grudge-bearing posters have finally come out!
Somebody else is going to have to make witty, cutting remarks that cut their arguments to ribbons. I am fresh out.
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zhoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 254
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Post by zhoe on Sept 20, 2019 15:05:41 GMT
@gheytemplar
teh list wus cheked fer acurateness and craver was stil on it
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zhoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 254
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Post by zhoe on Sept 20, 2019 15:09:39 GMT
How PP handled the early Cygnar nerfs really made me question their competency as developers. They tiptoed around Haley 2s feat, nerfing every other part of her kit, then when they finally addressed the feat which was the real issue, did they revert the other changes? Did they fcuk! Also 1 less wj point for Haley 1? Am still waiting to hear the rationale behind that, and I can never forgive them for making Caine 2 a meme tier caster. Its like they went 'hey! this caster that has virtually no support for his army and is all about personal output! Their output is too much of an NPE, so lets nerf that. Shall we increase his army support to make up for it? No fudge that! Im sure he wont be garbage' And dont get me started on Heavy Metal not having a merc solo for so long... I had to quit Cygnar in the end and play mercs, it just pisses me off too much to think about how badly PP screwed them up Here's hoping Riot Quest tanks so bad that they sell the warmachine IP. I'm not confident any designers left at PP know how to fix the game or has the willpower to do so. i am told riotquasst is aprety hot comoditty so im afraid all ur hoeps and dreems may be crushed
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Post by hypnotoad on Sept 20, 2019 15:33:03 GMT
Good job, shoe! It took a couple days, but the insane grudge-bearing posters have finally come out! Somebody else is going to have to make witty, cutting remarks that cut their arguments to ribbons. I am fresh out. *slow claps* It took about as long for an asinine PP apologist to jump in here. This is the state of the game and community right now: actively trolling other community members about things in the game that are actually messed up. Good job, guys.
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Post by michael on Sept 20, 2019 15:46:30 GMT
(Amusing anecdote regarding the original Caine2 at the MK III release: he was broken, stupid broken. How broken? I have been playing since MK I; I know what I am doing. I know how to play cautiously, I know how to keep my caster safe. I played a game against a guy who started up shortly after the MK III release. He literally had been playing for two or three weeks and had maybe 6 games under his belt. He still has to ask if he was doing charges right.
On turn 2 or 3, with my caster toeing the kill box line, he walked up and trivially* assassinated an effective DEF 18 ARM 18 caster who was camping 2. Literally** all he had to do was walk into range on a hill and start rolling dice, after having the GMCA tag a single intervening model with Shadow Fire.
But, sure, Caine2 was fine upon MK III release.)
* Yes, I am using “trivially” properly, not in the hyperbolic sense it is usually seen on the internet.
** And the same goes for “literally”, too.
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Post by michael on Sept 20, 2019 15:52:01 GMT
Good job, shoe! It took a couple days, but the insane grudge-bearing posters have finally come out! Somebody else is going to have to make witty, cutting remarks that cut their arguments to ribbons. I am fresh out. *slow claps* It took about as long for an asinine PP apologist to jump in here. This is the state of the game and community right now: actively trolling other community members about things in the game that are actually messed up. Good job, guys. Sez you! To a non-trivial degree, this forum is just the cesspit where all the angry-at-Privateer-over- whatever people congregate in order to bounce their vitriol around an echo chamber so they can believe everyone shares their points of view. You have people actively advocating for Privateer to fail because somehow that will “fix” the game according to their twisted logic, because that makes sense. Elsewhere, people are genuinely happy with the game and enjoying it, and I can only hope their first introduction to the game is not behavior like we have in this thread, because nothing will cause this doom-and-gloom prophecy to self-fulfill faster.
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zhoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 254
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Post by zhoe on Sept 20, 2019 16:07:28 GMT
(Amusing anecdote regarding the original Caine2 at the MK III release: he was broken, stupid broken. How broken? I have been playing since MK I; I know what I am doing. I know how to play cautiously, I know how to keep my caster safe. I played a game against a guy who started up shortly after the MK III release. He literally had been playing for two or three weeks and had maybe 6 games under his belt. He still has to ask if he was doing charges right. On turn 2 or 3, with my caster toeing the kill box line, he walked up and trivially* assassinated an effective DEF 18 ARM 18 caster who was camping 2. Literally** all he had to do was walk into range on a hill and start rolling dice, after having the GMCA tag a single intervening model with Shadow Fire. But, sure, Caine2 was fine upon MK III release.) * Yes, I am using “trivially” properly, not in the hyperbolic sense it is usually seen on the internet. ** And the same goes for “literally”, too. dat anecdope was not verry amusing! also eh can stil do dat and 18 18 2 camp is supar kilable
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Post by greytemplar on Sept 20, 2019 16:25:23 GMT
*slow claps* It took about as long for an asinine PP apologist to jump in here. This is the state of the game and community right now: actively trolling other community members about things in the game that are actually messed up. Good job, guys. Sez you! To a non-trivial degree, this forum is just the cesspit where all the angry-at-Privateer-over- whatever people congregate in order to bounce their vitriol around an echo chamber so they can believe everyone shares their points of view. You have people actively advocating for Privateer to fail because somehow that will “fix” the game according to their twisted logic, because that makes sense. Elsewhere, people are genuinely happy with the game and enjoying it, and I can only hope their first introduction to the game is not behavior like we have in this thread, because nothing will cause this doom-and-gloom prophecy to self-fulfill faster. Nobody is advocating for PP to fail.
Some people are saying PP is making mistakes. But thats not what this thread is about. its about just which casters you think are bad.
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on Sept 20, 2019 16:58:35 GMT
Can I ask a dumb question of the OP? Is there a joke I'm missing for the odd typing? Is it supposed to be an Ork thing? Now that I've seen it, I can't stop wondering about it.
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Post by sand20go on Sept 20, 2019 17:17:29 GMT
The worst faction in the game though is probably crucible guard. Mediocre heavies meet single wound infantry in this extremely hard faction. Oh you have a tank? Lol So they get their country taken over by Khador But I’m throwing acid at you! So what, this is a world of magic and dragons. LOL - you clearly play in a meta without double railless and Syvestro.
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Post by sand20go on Sept 20, 2019 17:29:33 GMT
I don't know if they are top 5 worst but....
Butcher2. Took a huge nerf on the feat and a medium nerf on Conferred rage (which used to allow charges for free) in the transition to MK3. Arcane Dementia is only fun in the minds of 2 guys on the PP staff - the rest of us think, "If I wanted to gamble I would go to Vegas" when the ONLY caster in the game has to roll for focus and can only max out on 7. Conferred range sounds fun until you see he is RAT 5 with a RNG 8 gun, meaning that you are likely to miss and die. Pac-manning through an army sounds fun until you realize that one miss or one tough roll ruins THAT plan.
And maybe it is that he is worst because MadDogs in MK2 was BY FAR the most wonderously fun list to play - both for and against - in MK2.
Sorscha2. Another caster made sad in MK3. Losing Freezing grip (did they run out of ink for her card?) make no sense as now she has no way to control infantry. Her feat got nerfed from a pulse to an aura - requiring her to be within 12 inches of target. Without Windrush she is stuck at DEF 16/ARM 15 with just 17 boxes in that exposed position. Desperate pace on ONE unit of squishy winterguard - requiring a star action, is wasted space.
Khador doesn't have many bad casters and a deep stable. But these 2 are up there now that Vlad3 (Warriors) and even Hark (triple colls) got a bit of love.
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zhoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 254
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Post by zhoe on Sept 20, 2019 17:50:06 GMT
Can I ask a dumb question of the OP? Is there a joke I'm missing for the odd typing? Is it supposed to be an Ork thing? Now that I've seen it, I can't stop wondering about it. no
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