bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Sept 13, 2019 7:43:24 GMT
Stagger on the Basher's melee weapon is in theory a good counter to battle engines, but it's only crit and delivering him far enough is not easy. Wish Stagger was more widespread than grievious, that could help the meta forward. Or that it was not crit on the Basher Do you really think the archon is gonna make a difference? The heavy beasts need way more than just fury management imo..
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Post by mydnight on Sept 13, 2019 11:09:26 GMT
Grissel1 can give 7" repo to a HHH and Calamity really goes a long way. And the existence of Boomhowler2 is good. I still worry about our ability to go beast heavy though.
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Sept 13, 2019 11:14:24 GMT
Do you really think the archon is gonna make a difference? The heavy beasts need way more than just fury management imo.. Dhunia archon is way more than just fury management, but fury management is good start.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Sept 13, 2019 12:14:31 GMT
Battle engines are definitely good peaces as they work 100% for last HP. They are like beasts, that don't need fury. And they are also good against clockatrice as they are not living. I can't argue shmeep if he don't like big models, but I like them. First was the Grim1+4 huge list Iwaasa copied from me and now I'm playing Borka2 double HHH. I really hope that Dhunia archon free a bit our beast play with shepherd's call and we see more heavy beasts. Personally I'm waiting the model so I can start testing Grissel2 MK+double Dhunia list. I don't actually mind huge based models, I actually think they're very cool, my issue is that it seems like they're objectively better than all of the alternatives, at least when it comes to BEs. In a perfect world I'd want any list to be viable as long as the models in it have good synergy, but obviously that's impossible. I don't mind that a 4 huge base list works, I -do- mind that it seems like it's almost the only thing that works.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Sept 13, 2019 13:18:51 GMT
Do you really think the archon is gonna make a difference? The heavy beasts need way more than just fury management imo.. Dhunia archon is way more than just fury management, but fury management is good start. I know that but not in regards to beast support? Just wondering what about her should incentivize more heavy beast play (besides shepherd's call ofc). If she gets Enrage as well or something similar, sure.
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Post by allinontrolls on Sept 13, 2019 13:22:10 GMT
In My opinion we need to focus more on the Meta and how to answer it instead of playing whats best in Trolls. I often find myself playing kolgrima in sotn cause its a good List but i does not answer Any Top Meta lists. I really like the idea of the canadian wtc player running beast Heavy doomy3 and calandra boh. Its something new and seems to Be able to answer certain Meta Top lists.
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Sept 13, 2019 14:29:45 GMT
Define meta. I run Jarl locally because we have a harby player that is an ungodly terror and I do well with him there. I've gotten enough reps to get good into other things as well. would that list be able to compete at Warfaire Weekend.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So I presume that you are referring to the national/world meta. And that's the issue right? Trolls aren't placing in those outings very well. so are the things trolls do well not what does well in that meta? And if so, what would you have people do?
I'm more of a find a niche', play the ever loving expletive out of it, and be the best you can. I may not have better stuff than you, but I'm going to know how it works a whole lot better. I've never had a curb stomp faction though, so maybe that's the disconnect.
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Post by michael on Sept 13, 2019 20:53:18 GMT
Again I agree with you. Welcome to pay-to-win BAHI-machine.. Your perceptions are skewed. You cherry-picked the highest-powered battle engines in the game and claimed they were representative. Those models are not representative.
Many, many theme forces lack battle engines. Plenty of themes are viable with or without their battle engines.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Sept 13, 2019 22:16:38 GMT
Yes, because that's the only ones I see. Look at the WTC stats, BAHI is everywhere. I know a lot of themes are without but there's a reason no one plays with the old non-BAHI battle engines. Heard a couple ret players not satisfied with post oblivion and the need to have 2 tridents in all lists just to have a game. That's why I call it BAHI-machine. Not because you can't play the game without, but because you kinda have to if you want to play the game competetively with some of the top factions. But anyway, back on topic: I don't understand the Doomy3 canada list allinontrolls mentioned. In this heavy no-healing meta, he brings a beast caster with a healing feat in SR19 with no gargantuan. Does anyone know the tech behind it? Stranglehold to counter battle engines?
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Post by Kevin on Sept 14, 2019 5:27:26 GMT
I'm impressed by the evolution of this thread. From what does our faction needs to be competetive, through how our list composition diversity sucks to why we hate BAHI Am I suprised by lack of the troll players at WTC - I'm not. Trolls are mediocre fraction which main problem is that the things it does, other do better Also not suprised by almost copy and paste lists idea. Same actualy with other factions - Oblivion errata was to close to WTC list lock, and other then minor changes the player base didn't have enought time to play lists that behave totally different then before. Dont get the BAHI hate in troll forum - in our case the first BE is much better in most cases then the one from BAHI. From the list diversity - I'm suprised by myself cause even though I still think KC as an army list still sucks with units choices, most of my list post oblivion are in this list. Most are simmilar, and starts with 2 BE and 3 heavis, but dont have enough time to play What I also noticed is that even thought the point cap for freebiews is done, I'm still to hasitant to put axer into all my lists - 10 points that we can use for more things
The Doomie 3 list is not that suprising. In 5 players team, when in most cases ya have more or less control over what ya playin against that caster can ask some searious questions. More suprised with that calandra list, cause kinda have no idea what it's supposed to do
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Post by allinontrolls on Sept 15, 2019 20:30:44 GMT
Just guessing but i would think he uses calandra as a reroll caster. I like the idea of having 3-5 Puppet Master a turn + feat....
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Sept 16, 2019 6:37:31 GMT
Calandra is really good against melee. EDBT is def 16, so if beasts have to boost to hit they wont kill it single round. And infantry will struggle to kill even def12 fennblades under starcrossed. Even double one's are quite likely.
And for doomy3 list, Mulg will help a lot against Mortality casters, as most can't throw more than 2 on turn. (denny3 is exeption) Pure grievous is not that common.
Definitely good to see someone shaking meta and really keen to see how they work.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Sept 16, 2019 11:28:12 GMT
Ahh forgot about Arcane Vortex, that helps ofcourse. And Valkyries help against the shooting GW from CG and the like. But won't it just lose quickly on scenario? Min stone, no real way to contest, and very short threat ranges on super live SR19 scenarios. Hmmm Just wondering, would be great if it works. Am a big fan of doomy myself, missed him since mk3 launched.
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Sept 16, 2019 19:01:07 GMT
All of this seasoned with "it's WTC" so you can get your matchups a lot better into what you want, or at least have game into playing with more consistency.
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Post by dickovdk on Sept 16, 2019 19:09:47 GMT
All of this seasoned with "it's WTC" so you can get your matchups a lot better into what you want, or at least have game into playing with more consistency. Or just be thrown under the buss, playing trolls means playing uphill anyways so just throw the troll-player against the worst match for everyone else then you somehow contribute being a troll player
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