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Post by voidbender on Aug 23, 2019 20:05:37 GMT
I, like many others, have been running into trouble with double tridents in the hands of a skilled player.
Lylyth3 seems like the best answer, but Garryth2 and Issyria bring a number of magical guns and that combined with my need to clump up around wind wall has me still feeling a bit disadvantaged in the matchup.
I've heard that double trident lists (at least Garryth2) have had some trouble into gaspy slayer spam, which is given me a terrible idea.
War Room Army
Legion of Everblight - Dumber
Theme: Children of the Dragon 75 / 75 Army
Saeryn, Omen of Everblight - WB: +28 - Succubus - PC: 0 - Carnivean - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Carnivean - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8
Spell Martyr - PC: 1 The Forsaken - PC: 0 The Forsaken - PC: 0 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1
Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8
THEME: Children of the Dragon ---
GENERATED : 08/23/2019 08:01:16 BUILD ID : 2089.19-07-18
The other version "Just Dumb" is in Ravens for the better chance of going first and sorceresses instead of forsaken for the free charges. It gives up unyielding too, but I'm mostly worried about ranged attacks.
This list provides similar numbers, boxes, and armor (fewer boxes, more armor when it matters most, and more armor vs melee). Saeryn is def 20 at range with her cloud and can protect herself or a Carny from mortality.
Much less offense than slayers which I suspect will be the primary issue, but the Carnys power must still be respected and since I'm the one rushing to engagement I'll be in scenario and don't need to kill them any faster than they kill me. There is always the option to drop 1 bloodseer or the valkyries for BFS or the hermit.
Thagrosh1 is another possibility, but he'll be easier to assassinate at range and +3 armor vs shooting that critical turn may be more valuable than bringing 1 back.
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Post by voidbender on Aug 23, 2019 20:29:08 GMT
This might be a better list. Saeryn can protect 1 unit from mortality.
Hellmouths are mostly a waste against vs Garryth2, but as a free choice they do require his personal attention for 1 turn.
War Room Army
Legion of Everblight - Saeryn Anti-Garry
Theme: Primal Terrors 75 / 75 Army
Saeryn, Omen of Everblight - WB: +28 - Ammok the Truthbearer - PC: 0 - Blightbringer - PC: 32 (Battlegroup Points Used: 28) - Carnivean - PC: 18 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8
Hellmouth - PC: 0 The Forsaken - PC: 0 Spell Martyr - PC: 1
Chosen of Everblight - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8
THEME: Primal Terrors ---
GENERATED : 08/23/2019 16:25:38 BUILD ID : 2089.19-07-18
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Post by davycannonhound on Aug 25, 2019 13:56:19 GMT
This might be a better list. Saeryn can protect 1 unit from mortality. Hellmouths are mostly a waste against vs Garryth2, but as a free choice they do require his personal attention for 1 turn. War Room Army Legion of Everblight - Saeryn Anti-Garry Theme: Primal Terrors 75 / 75 Army Saeryn, Omen of Everblight - WB: +28 - Ammok the Truthbearer - PC: 0 - Blightbringer - PC: 32 (Battlegroup Points Used: 28) - Carnivean - PC: 18 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8 Hellmouth - PC: 0 The Forsaken - PC: 0 Spell Martyr - PC: 1 Chosen of Everblight - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8 THEME: Primal Terrors --- GENERATED : 08/23/2019 16:25:38 BUILD ID : 2089.19-07-18 My question is, why play in theme here? Is the free points really worth it? Because right now, thats the only benefit you're getting here, as none of your stuff gets any bonus (no vengeanceing units and the loss of the deployment buff).
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Post by voidbender on Aug 25, 2019 18:21:29 GMT
My question is, why play in theme here? Is the free points really worth it? Because right now, thats the only benefit you're getting here, as none of your stuff gets any bonus (no vengeanceing units and the loss of the deployment buff). Azreal, Zuriel, Proteus, low-arm nyss...I think they'd be mowed down fairly easily by tridents. Typhon has potential, but I think it's important to have a 2nd source of durability animus for the bloodseers(they can't use typhon's). I'm worried about not having enough bodies/boxes if I take him as a third heavy. A throne is worth considering. I'm not sure that I want anything not available in theme, so until then any benefit is worth it.
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Post by voidbender on Aug 25, 2019 19:29:15 GMT
I'm not really sold on the chosen, especially with the extra overhead of the Blightbringer. He's good, but less armor and boxes for the points even counting the chosen, which can still be 1-shot by Garry.
You got me thinking about thrones though. No need to animus to arm 20, only 8 boxes less than 2 bloodseers for the same points, and much more offense without fury buildup.
I think BB and chosen are a big enough chunk of points that they're either your focus or not in the list.
Without so much of the army depending on spiny growth, I felt I could drop the valkyries for another bloodseer, or maybe I should instead drop a carnivean for 2 bloodseers. Or I could go out of theme, dropping a carnivean and a bloodseer for typhon and fury support. I would consider that more if i didn't have to drop a 2nd high arm body.
War Room Army
Legion of Everblight - Saeryn Again?
Theme: Oracles of Annihilation 75 / 75 Army
Saeryn, Omen of Everblight - WB: +28 - Succubus - PC: 0 - Carnivean - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Carnivean - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8
Throne of Everblight - PC: 16 Throne of Everblight - PC: 16
Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion - PC: 0 The Forsaken - PC: 0 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Spell Martyr - PC: 1
THEME: Oracles of Annihilation ---
GENERATED : 08/25/2019 15:18:24 BUILD ID : 2089.19-07-18
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Aug 26, 2019 13:12:31 GMT
If you want to beat Gary2, you really need to capitalize on what he can't handle:
Stealth Big, beefy targets he can't hurt much on his feat (because it's only one target) Anything that reduces his range, like Flying High on Archangel.
So, given that... War Room Army
Legion of Everblight - Abby Hates Gary
Theme: Ravens of War 75 / 75 Army
Absylonia, Terror of Everblight - WB: +31 - Archangel - PC: 35 (Battlegroup Points Used: 31) - Archangel - PC: 35
Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion - PC: 0 The Forsaken - PC: 0 Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion - PC: 0 The Forsaken - PC: 4 Spell Martyr - PC: 1
Strider Blightblades - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 Strider Scouts - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Strider Scout Officer & Musician - Officer & Musician: 4 Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8
THEME: Ravens of War ---
GENERATED : 08/26/2019 09:12:09 BUILD ID : 2089.19-07-18
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eauc
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by eauc on Aug 26, 2019 13:44:40 GMT
He kinda has Mortality, a big beefy target like the AA is a very good client for this spell. It negates Absy's feat.
Also he can ignore stealth himself, and he has mage sight (granted you can probably avoid it during his feat with spd7 striders).
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Post by voidbender on Aug 26, 2019 13:57:07 GMT
I haven't had that much problem with his feat. It's a significant thing, but it has not been what beats me. When I consider stealth I'm more concerned about what he does with mage sight on his own turn.
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eauc
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by eauc on Aug 26, 2019 14:02:13 GMT
Exactly. I'm not sure Garryth2 needs his feat to beat Legion.
The feat is mostly dangerous for stuff like Eyriss that can easily deplete our aggressive warlocks from their fury, or thunderbolt that can push our heavies out of melee after they charge.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Aug 26, 2019 15:07:27 GMT
I'm used to seeing him with Tridents and only a couple jacks, which really aren't that dangerous when they can't slam your huge base. Wasting jack shots on your stealth guys is even better.
As for Mortality, if you have SGs in your list, he has to end within 17" to use it (no witch Mark). In fact, thanks to Flying High, he has to end within 16" tov shoot you. Your Archangels threaten 18" with their shooting.
Meanwhile you have Blightblades ambushing in to jam his shooting elements and squeeze him to the center.
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Post by voidbender on Aug 26, 2019 15:22:58 GMT
This is how I've been seeing him, assuming I picked the right eiryss in conflict chamber. Two tridents that haven't spent any tokens on turn 1 have a good chance of taking out a mortalitied AA (arced through a running Chimera) by themselves turn 2, without a charge attack. conflictchamber.com/?c5201b_-1nnA1gjsjseP3W41414J4Jf2f2hTmpmpRetribution [Theme] Defenders of Ios [Garryth 2] Garryth, Eye of Vengeance [+29] - Chimera [8] - Harpy [9] - Harpy [9] - Moros [11] Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios [0(7)] Ghost Sniper [0(3)] Ghost Sniper [0(3)] Heavy Rifle Team [0(4)] Heavy Rifle Team [4] House Vyre Electromancers [7] House Vyre Electromancers [7] Arcantrik Force Generator [17] Dawnguard Trident [16] Dawnguard Trident [16]
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Aug 26, 2019 15:35:33 GMT
Yeah, the Arc node screws you. All the Gary players on my area tell me never play with one but I disagree. And your situation explains why. Can you run Orin?
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Aug 26, 2019 15:51:12 GMT
Yeah, the Arc node screws you. All the Gary players on my area tell me never play with one but I disagree. And your situation explains why. Can you run Orin? No you can't. Damn... Take out the arc node? He only has the one and you have plenty that can get him from range as well as jam it.
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Post by voidbender on Aug 26, 2019 16:49:12 GMT
Between apparition, run, and if need be slipstream from a trident and only needing to get within 10" of the target, he can keep the Chimera safe until he uses it.
I've come to accept that he will get 1 turn of mortality where he wants it (barring my banishing ward target) in spite of shield guards, unless i run the sacral vault. Hmm. Maybe that can replace one of the thrones in my last Saeryn list. It doesn't get the feat, but i could save my shield guards for it that turn.
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eauc
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by eauc on Aug 27, 2019 13:23:42 GMT
Pretty much the standard Garryth list. From what I've gathered from our local Scyrah player, he just doesn't fear much in Legion. He couldn't see what could really pose problems to his list. Then we started comparing a Trident to a Ravagore and ended up totally drunk
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