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Post by ajay29 on Aug 22, 2019 13:05:49 GMT
Used to play him a little, haven’t for years... What are Midas lists looking like nowadays?
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Post by Azahul on Aug 22, 2019 20:43:26 GMT
A little hard to tell honestly. I know some people are excited by the theme force changes, since they can now run him with infantry like Valkyries and Nyss in WWFF and get all the extra spellcasting support in the Soul Slave and Bone Shrines. I haven't had a chance to play it yet, but I think my old Thornfall Alliance build running just a swarm of infantry just got a fair bit better with the addition of Rise and Trenches to the theme.
War Hogs also got a fair bit more attractive as a Warbeast option instead of the lights because of the ability to Aggression Dial on Feat turn, so there's some more potential for running a little heavier on the Warbeasts too.
Since stat skews are Midas's primary prey, and aren't super popular at the moment, there's not a huge reason to look at him competitively right now I think. Still need plan on taking him for a whirl once the Dhunian Archons are out though.
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Post by custardboy on Aug 23, 2019 3:27:21 GMT
Midas is a bit of a mess in terms of design. He just doesn't want to use Farrow models. He's also extremely boring, everything he has is about 'punch the thing better' and due to his confused design he isn't very good at it.
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Post by shortcutbacon on Aug 23, 2019 9:23:00 GMT
I miss running Midas bonegrinder spam. One would hope that a Farrow CID is closer then expected as Midas much like Helga and Carver falls into that pile of someone else does your job better, which is a shame I like the idea of him but his execition is poor.
I think something that could really give him some flavor in the mean time is tweeking his feat; in addition to bringing back beasts if each friendly warrior model in his control area could move an inch for each fury spent that would be thematically interesting.
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Post by Azahul on Aug 23, 2019 11:05:59 GMT
Seeing as he can spend 9 Fury, that's basically turning him into the infantry version of Arkadius
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Post by ajay29 on Aug 23, 2019 11:19:10 GMT
What about the TFall vs WWFF choice? Seems like his preferred support is in WWFF (soul slave and cauldron) but more troop options in TFall...
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Post by Azahul on Aug 23, 2019 12:34:50 GMT
More or less. I played him a lot in Thornfall and he never really felt like he needed the extra support. Pigs hit plenty hard on their own and he just made them hit harder. The point discounts on Slaughterhousers and the new delivery options just make that list better, but it's still a long slow crawl up the table and copping a beating from the enemy on the way in.
WWFF gives tons of support but less meat for the list, which for a guy without a delivery mechanic never felt super appealing to me. A mixed arms list with a heavier beast presence is reasonable... but that's also arguably better in Thornfall where they can use Salvage to regenerate pretty reasonable amounts of health after being Feated back.
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Post by custardboy on Aug 27, 2019 0:02:39 GMT
You must play a different level of armour to me then, I found that my pig infantry failed pretty hard against armour. Of course two of my common opponents play Skorne and Khador...
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Post by Azahul on Aug 27, 2019 13:32:41 GMT
That's interesting. I ran Midas Thornfall Alliance as virtually a dedicated Skorne drop for ages. Brigands have some of the hardest hitting infantry guns in the game. Slaughterhousers are a little below the curve in terms of comparable weapon master infantry, admittedly, but Midas doesn't need any support to toss a Battle Lust on them. And the problem with diving into WWFF to be more liberal with the Battle Lusts feels like you're working with infantry that are already lower hitting power than the Slaughterhousers. The real travesty though is that there's still no way to run him in theme with a Bokor and Shamblers
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Post by dessert hydra on Aug 27, 2019 15:48:12 GMT
I've played a bit of Midas in WWFF, the Valkaries and Nyss are amazeballs with Battle Lust. The Boomtrolls are useless but now that you can have Capt Repo aka Boomie2 he turns the Nyss on even more and even makes the Valkaries better. The number of times I've had all 3 girls go in on a heavy, trash it with Battle Lust but then all die next turn due to a nice landing spot for a new model.
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Post by custardboy on Aug 29, 2019 23:43:04 GMT
Brigands have hard hitting guns that pose a minimal threat to a durable heavy with prey. Without Calamity (and he can rarely cast Calamity safely) they just roll a 21 average on a hit- and they're only rat 5-7. If you're staring down a Marauder you'll do a mighty 1 damage per brigand, and vs a carapace slayer it's next to nothing (probably a bit from spikes).
I really don't see how he could play comfortably into Skorne- I can see Valkyries help a lot against Turtles, but you can't actually catch them. Brigands don't have great targets and have a bad time against Kreas.
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Post by Azahul on Aug 30, 2019 0:33:56 GMT
Why would I be trying to catch turtles? They're not actually doing anything of note to the 40-odd infantry as they're marching up the board, so if they just keep backing up they'll actually achieve a miracle and give Midas a scenario lead. They're only a threat if they actually commit and clear out a swathe of troops with all their melee attacks, just need to stagger things so that they can't kill too much on the charge.
As for getting Calamity in play, you're right that he can rarely cast it safely... on Turn 2. Sometimes I can find a way to get the spell out there without overextending him, in which case groovy. But mostly it gets cast around about Turn 3 when, as above, the enemy has charged my front line and killed it. A Hog Wild shoot-and-charge combo against a Calamity'd Prey Target will allow even a depleted Brigand unit to crack Armour 20.
Unfortunately it looks like most of my older pictures in my Battle Report thread have disappeared, so I don't have any pertinent examples to show you since I stopped playing Midas pretty much as soon as Mire released and I could make Sturm and Drang work instead.
You know, there are a lot of negative things I agree with when it comes to playing Midas in Thornfall. It's slow, reactive, hands control of the pace of the game to your opponent, and grinds out for ages before a potential win condition presents itself. I don't like the playstyle of it myself, which is why I haven't touched the list in about a year. But cracking armour is something I never had an issue with. I often had Hutchuck in the list, and POW 18 Brigand shots were not unheard of. P+S 11+5d6 Slaughterhouser charges are real easy to set up. Even the Bone Grinders could reasonably remove a Skorne heavy in the late game. It may not have kept pace with meta changes in the last year, and Skorne may well have better answers to it now, but the problems won't be to do with breaking armour on models like Animantarax as they would be with dealing with improved infantry clearing.
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Post by shortcutbacon on Aug 30, 2019 6:57:04 GMT
The real travesty though is that there's still no way to run him in theme with a Bokor and Shamblers Im assuming the idea here is to battle lust the unit and have the bokor go full ham as a POW12 weapon master with 10 attacks in addition to what ever the shamblers can land?
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Post by Azahul on Aug 30, 2019 8:30:54 GMT
Im assuming the idea here is to battle lust the unit and have the bokor go full ham as a POW12 weapon master with 10 attacks in addition to what ever the shamblers can land? That's the one. Pre-themepocalypse I had some fun with that build. Bit vulnerable to getting the Bokors sniped out and still suffering the slow speed issue of Midas lists, but boy was it fun when it went off.
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Post by shortcutbacon on Aug 30, 2019 9:31:14 GMT
Just noticed the cap of 20 shamblers... well, thats a thing, hello cauldrons.
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